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BringerOfTruth
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I've been reading this message board for about a month now. I've read stuff that made me laugh, dumbfounded, or lose hope in mankind. Let me get right to the point. You CANNOT time travel. It's impossible! Humans never have or never will be able to.

 

Let me start off from a religious stand-point. I'm a full believer in a loving, caring, all-mighty God that has sent His son down to earth so that we may be saved. And once we die, we immediatly go either to Heaven or to Hell (keep this in mind). Now, how is time travel possible when this is true? When you time travel to the past, you're actually playing God because you're bringing people back to life, taking their souls away from Heaven or Hell so that they are living again. That isn't possible! Some of you will say, "its possible. there are other worldlines with another you living there". Ummm, no. God mentioned nothing about creating a "multiverse" or "world-lines". So you're saying that in another "world-line" that Adam and Eve never ate the forbidden fruit? LOL! I could go on from a religious point.

 

Now from a scientific stand-point. Time travel IS NOT possible. Now please forgive me, but I'm going to use the John Titor story as reference. I've seen the pictures this fella has posted. Let me use the picture where his "teacher" is showing him how a gravitational field is bending a laser light. The image quality of this picture is horrible! You would think by the year 2036, pictures would look a lot better with a high resolution to it. That picture looks like it was taken back when digital cameras first came out around 2000 with low mega-pixels. And the laser? I could make that laser bend into an image of building if I wanted to with PhotoShop. I could also go on and on about this but I want to keep this post short.

 

I'm really sorry to burst your dream of time traveling, but it had to be done. :(

 

 

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Well i never read anything about computers or automobiles in the bible, but they do exist. And the only thing about space in the bible is probably the line about creating the heavens and the stars. Are we playing god with space travel technology?

 

What exactly is "playing god"? If it is the pursuit of perfectionism and exploration, then I would say we are already doing that.

 

God mentioned nothing about creating a "multiverse" or "world-lines"

Umm do you know god personally? When did he tell you this?

 

God is supposed to be the most powerful force in the universe - how can a human comprehend that? We wont be playing god until we are gods. We could be considered gods compared to every other species on the planet, but in the total scheme of things are we really all that powerful?

 

Yes time travel could cause major problems, but we need entertainment dammit! Maybe people are sick of reading sci fi books and want to have a real adventure, and possibly blow up the universe in the process... :D

 

 

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``Now from a scientific stand-point``

 

``Let me start off from a religious stand-point``

 

Don`t forget the embarresment of the vatican with there Pope apology list (some public others still a muffled ehh yea sorry about that) ... Pope JP II to Bruno for example ... you being a God fearing soul will know what I`m on about ...

 

read up on a another soul called Hermes T.

 

and yes :) who the :devil: are you to burst my dreams ... not very positive that.

 

 

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Hello,

 

I am not here to ridicule or make fun of you. I just want to give you a clear understanding of the church's scientific understanding vs. the scientific community's understanding of time travel. Throughout the centuries there have been many different understandings of how the earth is shaped and travels through space. It was in fact the church who kept up the theory that the earth was both flat and was the center of the universe. This seemed valid in theory considering that our speculation showed us that we did in fact live on land that was flat and the sun seemed to be traveling around the earth. The church held these so called "facts" up to the highest degree-- even executing those who questioned or denounced them. Today obviously no one believes either of these, we now know that the world is round and the earth travels around the sun. Now if you could look at it the same way we view time, you notice that our perception of time could possibly be very wrong. Even Stephen Hawking, one of the most famous theoretical physicists in the world, stated that time travel is very possible. I would suggest reading "About Time, Einstein's unfinished Revolution" by Paul Davies or "Time Travel: A New Perspective" by J.H. Brennan to look at the properties of physics that actually allow for the development of Time Travel technology. To make the statement that time travel is "impossible" makes your opinion directly contradictory to some of the most intelligent theoretical physicist in the world and I highly doubt you are anywhere as well learned in the area of physics as they are (no offense, but really who is?). Your John Titor reference is a faulty analogy, John Titor was most likely a fake and a very great storyteller. Considering this you cannot say because John Titor's story is fake that time travel is not possible. Sorry to say but you did not "burst my dream of time traveling" but only allowed me to realize how disillusioned people are by theology and the liklihood that we would not be as technologically advanced as we are today if we relied on the bible as a scientific reference.

 

 

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Good post ScienceSpecs! I totally understand what you're saying about the Church and their "facts". And I'll head out to my schools library to look for one of those books. ;) Now don't misunderstand me, I'm all for science and technology. I love watching hi-res movies with a DVD player, playing online video games, and even playing my Playstation 2. And no, I have no where near the understanding of physics as you have mentioned - but how in the world can you change something that has already took place? You're telling me, someone will be able to go back to Septemeber 10th, 2001 and STOP the WTC attacks? I just don't believe it... :D

 

 

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"And once we die, we immediatly go either to Heaven or to Hell," Bringer of Truth

 

Have you read the book of Revelations it talks about a great judgement of all people before they are sent anywhere:

 

"And I saw the dead small and great stand before God, and the books were opened, and another book was opened, which was the book of life. And the dead were judged out of the things which were writen in the books according to there works."

 

I don't think it can be very imeadiate if we have to wait for everyone to die, and then go through judgement.

 

"you're bringing people back to life, taking their souls away from Heaven or Hell so that they are living again." Bringer of Truth

 

That is not the idea of time travel, the idea is that you go back to a time when they were alive, if they had seen you they would remember seeing you at the time of their death.

 

"I could go on from a religious point." Bringer of Truth

 

I'm sure you could...

 

"Now from a scientific stand-point. Time travel IS NOT possible." Bringer of Truth

 

You stated no scientific evidance, all you did was denounce one person who claimed to be a time traveler, with your prediction of expanding technology. Of course you know I could use a camera from 1920's right now if I wanted. Just because better technology is available doesn't mean it wont be used. And of course you "could" do the same thing with photoshop, but an alternate means of creating an image is not proof that an image is not authentic.

 

 

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And once we die, we immediatly go either to Heaven or to Hell (keep this in mind).

There is some required reading before you can call yourself Christian, and it looks like you've skimped a bit.

 

Check out Ch. 20 of Revelations. The dead stay put until the end of days (except, of course, those lucky enough to be martyrs during the Crusades by virtue of Pope Urban II's speech at Clermont.)

 

You CANNOT time travel. It's impossible! Humans never have or never will be able to.

If we ever can, we already have.

 

 

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Looks like you need some more reading. You pointed at a chapter in Revalations. That chapter talks about what happens AFTER the second coming of Jesus. Do I need to point out about the rich man, Lazerus, who begged for his family members to know about Hell cause he was down there. Or how Jesus told the theif on the cross that once he dies, he will be with Him in paradise?? And for your other reply, let me rephrase it: Time travel WILL never happen. Better? :D

 

 

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The way I understand doctrine....people go to either Hades or Paradise. These are "holding" areas until the Final Judgement. The first judgement determines if you have salvation through faith in Christ. The final Judgement sends those in Hades to Hell and the works of those in Paradise are judged to determine their reward in heaven.

 

I apologize for not including references, but I am at work. I can post them later if anyone wants them.

 

 

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I am definitely not offended by theological discussions; however, I find them extremely tiring when the discussions should be regarding scientific inquiry rather than whether which interpretation of a certain Bible verse is correct. Regarding your question: "Can't I have beliefs in Jesus and in TT?" That is entirely up for you to decide whether you can or cannot believe in Jesus as well as the possibilities of time travel simultaneously.

 

 

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I understand that I CAN have beliefs in both, but what I meant is: MAY I? In other words, I was asking you for your permission. You seemed to imply that you would like the religious discussions to take place on another forum. I was being condescending.

 

Does it really bother you that much?

 

And as for scientific inquiry...the majority of posts on this forum don't contain an ounce of science.

 

 

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Oh I am so sorry I could not discern your facetious attitude in your post. It actually really does bother me when people write totally irrelevant material on a public forum that is primarily directed towards science. I was merely directing it at you because I posted earlier to BringerOfTruth. There was no implication that I wanted religious discussions on a seperate forum, as I believe I was pretty direct with it. You obviously can write anything you want; however, I have the freedom to write my opinions as I wish.

 

p.s. just to clarify I do not mind if people want to write whether or not the Bible is conducive to the possibility of time travel or not; however, it is very irritating when people get into squabbles over how to interepret particular versus.

 

 

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"Why are you guys debating Christian doctrine on a time travel public forum? I believe there are some other message boards that you could post on where this topic would be more relevant." Science Specs

 

I believe Albert Einstein said it best when he said, "Science without religoun is lame, religoun without science is blind."

 

 

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my previous response:

 

"just to clarify I do not mind if people want to write whether or not the Bible is conducive to the possibility of time travel or not; however, it is very irritating when people get into squabbles over how to interepret particular versus."

 

Considering the fact that I have a major in physics with an emphasis on quantum theory, I am very familiar with Einstein. It is a good quote that you offered; however, many people take this particular quote out of context. Einstein believed in a higher form of intelligence but was definitely not a Christian. In this quote Einstein was merely referring to the "cosmic religious feeling." Einstein's definition of the word "religion" is very different from those who would use his proclamation to assert his belief in the value and insight of traditional religious dogma/thought.

 

 

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  • 2 months later...

I would like for you to explain how someone can truthfully believe in God and yet not believe that anything is possible or that anything is inevitable. By my definition of my God, "He" can make anything happen or not happen as "He" chooses at any time of "His" choosing. Time travel included. I do not believe that anything is inevitable or impossible. Nothing. Being human has three requirements: a. observation, b. assessment of probabilities based on observations, c. action. People who declare something as impossible or inevitable eliminate point b. and revert back to instinctual animal behavior based on habits. Elimination of point b. defines close-mindedness and causes most stupidity, acceptance of lies, and foolishness. Anyone who considers themselves religious should look up the word fanatic in the dictionary to make sure the word does not fit themselves, and everyone in America should look up the word fascist and decide which direction our country is headed.

 

 

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J 'problème the with said of many temps the travelers, is that they by acte the have of temps travel, distorted apparent timelines those. Ainsi what has happened dans timeline one, mai urgence occur others.

 

¿Los coches grandes están conduciendo encima de la pared, pues esta medicación no está trabajando martes!?

 

Des This is problème the is with said Titor the what as onduler as others. They larve themselves have known, ainsi purposely distorting temps lignes current the. Is said tonne si what tonne come happen, mai urgence tonne come tonne that temps ligne happen et due already being distorted,

 

 

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Revlations is garbage. Written by one of the "pigs" (to use the man jesus' term for roman cops), it has no relevance to the events of reality. If you remeber the old days before the romans killed all the teachers burned the gospels and founded the current idea of christianity we talked about a time in the long ago when the leaders of the tribes met and the staffs were put in a box and the true staff grew leaves on it. The box was a time machine folks.

 

This is what the teacher says:

 

Yeah, listen to the lyrics

 

We are the ones prophesized to return

 

My main concern is for all of you to learn

 

How to live, yes through the lyrics I give and send my friend

 

This age is coming to an end

 

Not the world, but the age is ending

 

Ending, listen to the astrological message I'm sending

 

I'm sending, tell em

 

Truth is truth, whether or not you like me

 

We are living now in the age of Pisces

 

When Pisces is over, at the year two thousand

 

When the Sun of God, changes his house and

 

enters the Age of Aquarius

 

The Sun of God as man is hilarious (okay)

 

When you think of Jesus, think of the Sun

 

The flaming Sun, that's where they stole this concept from

 

Stop believing and read your bible logically

 

The new testament is really old astrology

 

Jesus is the son of God no lie

 

But they might be talking about the Sun up in the sky

 

The Sun, that hangs on the cross of the zodiac

 

The zodiac with twelve signs to be exact

 

Each sign is a house, and you should keep in mind

 

Each house equals, a period of time

 

The time, two thousand years and that's a fact

 

It's called an age or a house in the zodiac

 

The twelve disciples, are twelve months of reason

 

The four gospels signify the four seasons

 

When Jesus fed the multitude with two fishes

 

It signified the Age of Pisces, not fish or dishes

 

If you read the bible astrologically it's clearer (no doubt)

 

The next age will be the age of the water-bearer

 

It's called the Age of Aquarius (word)

 

When logic and truth will take care of us

 

So in this age, of spiritual dignity

 

You'll see a rise in femininity

 

and creativity, meshed with masculinity

 

You got to get with me, this is your true her-story (rrryyy!)

 

Do you wanna go higher...

 

 

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Good God... Look at this.

 

I don´t believe, as you, that there´s enough proof that Titor is a Time Traveller, BUT it does not mean it isn´t possible. Now:

 

"When you time travel to the past, you're actually playing God because you're bringing people back to life, taking their souls away from Heaven or Hell so that they are living again."

 

NO [censored]! Really?? What about "That which is has already been, and what is to be has already been; and God requires an account of what is past." Eccl 3:15

 

What about parallel dimensions? What about a parallel dimension, where time does not exists, outside linear time? "Heaven"? People are not comming back to life. At Gods point of view, or better, outside the "linear time" dimension, everything is already history.

 

Well, to believe that, you must believe in linear time and a "end of time". But if you are a Christian, there´s no problem to believe in it.

 

If you need more info in this subject and other, pay a visit to www.echoesofenoch.com

 

 

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BringerOfTruth,

 

In response to:

 

'Let me start off from a religious stand-point. I'm a full believer in a loving, caring, all-mighty God that has sent His son down to earth so that we may be saved. And once we die, we immediatly go either to Heaven or to Hell (keep this in mind'

 

I think you should change your name, and quickly sign up with the inquisition or perhaps the Christian coalition.

 

Listen, god did not create the world/universe in seven days, all humans do not derive from Adam and Eve, there is no heaven or hell just state of mind, we are not the only intelligent species in the universe, and it is possible to travel in time.

 

This is not to say John Titor is a real time traveler or people are getting anal probes from little green men. It's just simple common sense….oh yea, the world is not flat either nor does it sit upon tortes.

 

PS: I didn't read past that sentence and I am sorry if it seems that I am being curt with you.

 

 

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