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RainmanTime
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Can't say that I have. I can't read Arabic.

And you don't need to. There are plenty of reputable sources that openly describe what are taught in the radical, extremist Madrassas. Here's some reading material...

 

http://www.discardedlies.com/entries/2004/11/the_madrassas.php

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/analyses/madrassas.html

 

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/001120.php

 

There is an interesting addition at the end of this last link. It speaks of how folks in the South prior to our Civil War sent their children to schools in Germany... and those schools taught similar militancy, which found a "cause for Jihad" in the Cecessionist Southerners.

 

RMT

 

 

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iunno rainman u seem to be stuck in the past... u cannot look to past events to justify what were doing now, unless it was done under the current administration. which ur examples have not been, who cares what happened in ww2, when it comes to todays politics. Sure u can learn a lot from it, but examples wont cut it, b/c it's a different' time and different place. Policy's of the world evolve and countries evolve... to throw out facts from the past seems ludicrous to me. :/

 

 

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Policy's of the world evolve and countries evolve... to throw out facts from the past seems ludicrous to me.

But don't you understand that this is the entire premise of the famous quote "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it?" That is precisely why I reference the past. The French did not learn from their WWI lesson, and so they repeated it in WWII. The past is replete with people getting complacent, and not calling evil murderers exactly what they are. Complacency is the danger, and no matter how much world policies and countries evolve, complacency will always be a danger.

RMT

 

 

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well said, Ray. there is no question about it, had america failed to come to the aid of europe, during and after wwII the world WOULD be a different place. taking that FACT into consideration, it is difficult to understand WHY more european countries do not support our war on terror. i understand that they might not agree with the way bush had gone about the war but they SHOULD support us. We not only liberated them but we forgave massive debts in order to make their future brighter.

 

As far as those that say, "don't live in the past" i.e wwII... i say to them that wwII was not that long ago and the world has still not fully recovered from the devestation of nazi germany. there are plenty of people alive today that lived and fought through the war. based on the words of a few of my family members that lived through it, in Italy, I have no doubt that the average person that survived that time period would say "America not only saved its own skin but saved the world." the battle was a collaborative effort but our assistance in the rebuild is second to NONE.

 

to those in Europe : I ask you to talk to someone that was around during the time when Germany WAS dropping bombs and leveling towns, cities and villages (in YOUR country) MURDERING 1000's of innocent people. Ask them how they felt during that time and how they felt about America.

 

I wish the usa could feed every mouth on the planet but we can't. the only way to continue to help\feed the 100's of millions of people that the usa DOES help is to keep on making bombs and keep defending those people with the presence of those bombs. I don't feel it is the governments responsibility to feed the world as much as it is to defend it..

 

Did you hear about the french military? they changed their uniforms to skirts and sneakers so that they can sh*t in their pants and run at the same time. :yum:

 

Lets face it, they planted trees along every river bank in their country so that the germans could march in the shade :)

 

To the French :

 

Eleven thousand soldiers

 

lay beneath the dirt and stone,

 

all buried on a distant land

 

so far away from home.

 

For just a strip of dismal beach

 

they paid a hero's price,

 

to save a foreign nation

 

they all made the sacrifice.

 

And now the shores of Normandy

 

are lined with blocks of white

 

Americans who didn't turn

 

from someone else's plight.

 

Eleven thousand reasons

 

for the French to take our side,

 

but in the moment of our need,

 

they chose to run and hide.

 

Chirac said every war means loss,

 

perhaps for France that's true,

 

for they've lost every battle

 

since the days of Waterloo.

 

Without a soldier worth a damn

 

to be found in the region,

 

the French became the only land

 

to need a Foreign Legion.

 

You French all say we're arrogant.

 

Well hell, we've earned the right--

 

We saved your sorry nation

 

when you lacked the guts to fight.

 

But now you've made a big mistake,

 

and one that you'll regret;

 

you took sides with our enemies,

 

and that we won't forget.

 

It wasn't just our citizens

 

you spit on when you turned,

 

but every one of ours who fell

 

the day the towers burned.

 

You spit upon our soldiers,

 

on our pilots and Marines,

 

and now you'll get a little sense

 

of just what payback means.

 

So keep your Paris fashions

 

and your wine and your champagne,

 

and find some other market

 

that will buy your aeroplanes.

 

And try to find somebody else

 

to wear your French cologne,

 

for you're about to find out

 

what it means to stand alone.

 

You see, you need us far more

 

than we ever needed you.

 

America has better friends

 

who know how to be true.

 

I'd rather stand with warriors

 

who have the will and might,

 

than huddle in the dark with those

 

whose only flag is white.

 

I'll take the Brits, the Aussies,

 

the Israelis and the rest,

 

for when it comes to valor

 

we have seen that they're the best.

 

We'll count on one another

 

as we face a moment dire,

 

while you sit on the sideline

 

with a sign "friendship for hire."

 

We'll win this war without you

 

and we'll total up the cost,

 

and take it from your foreign aid,

 

and then you'll feel the loss.

 

And when your nation starts to fall,

 

well frenchie, you can spare us,

 

just call the Germans for a hand,

 

they know the way to Paris."

 

that's my 2 cents - 1stBorn

 

 

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1st

 

well said, Ray. there is no question about it, had america failed to come to the aid of europe, during and after wwII the world WOULD be a different place.

You are free to have that opinion. You said some pretty whack things about the French though. IMO, I owe thanks to Russia most of all. Then the Canadians. I mean that. My teachers explain that you showed up late. And the politics used against the Russians after they saved everyone, man... You guys are just so mean and don't even realize it.

 

 

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Well Newbie, I see you didn't want to try to answer the simple question I put forth. Perhaps because it might make my point about people "America-bashing" while selecively choosing to NOT bash other countries/organizations that have done "bad things"? People get upset when America takes on problems and choose to handle something in our own particular way. But how often do people give America CREDIT for those good (very good) things we do for others in the world?

 

Inasmuch, I want to call your attention to part of a story on the Israeli-Palestinian ceasefire:

 

Bush has asked Congress to provide the Palestinian Authority with $350 million in U.S. funds to help rebuild infrastructure damaged or destroyed in the Palestinian territories after four years of Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

 

In addition, another $40 million will be "reprogrammed" from money already authorized for a desalination plant and used for immediate assistance in similar infrastructure programs, Rice said.

This from:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/02/08/mideast/index.html

 

Now what do you think the "average American taxpayer" thinks about us just doling out $ to Palestinians just because they are now learning to "make nice"? Beyond this, what OBLIGATION does America have to fund every Tom, Dick, and Harry who can't fend for themselves? The answer, of course, is that we do NOT have an obligation. But we are good people who want to do something for other countries and peoples who are working in the right direction (peace and freedom).

 

See any talk of bombs in the above quote? And believe me, we extend a LOT of money to many peoples around the world...morseo than your country, that's for sure. But, of course, people just enjoy bashing America for what they think are "wrong" policies, and thus the news almost never covers the stories of how much we already do for people beyond our borders.

 

Bombs have their place.... in dealing with people who don't "do the right thing" when we give them free food and free money. Sometimes, many people in the world must be treated just like little children...harsh, but it's true. If they can't behave because of the possibility of reward, then they will be punished.

 

RMT

 

 

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The fact that the suggestion of killing fewer people and feeding more draws so much opposition is maddening.

There is something else that is maddening: The fact that there are people out there who will kill themselves just to be able to kill us, and that there are people who don't "get" this and still want to try to apply our values to get them to change their attitudes. That is maddening. You really need to understand how Madrassas brainwash young people before you will understand that what would work with reasonable people like us will have absolutely no effect on people like that. Solving the problem of terrorism has nothing to do with feeding people.

RMT

 

 

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rainman i didn't say not to learn from the past, but to live in the past is long. Too many things have changed in just 40 years, that you cannot predict what will happen w/ in the next 40 years. By the rate we have been going i really wouldn't be surprised if we were teleporting aswell as time travelling. But think about it this way, terrorism like time travelling has never happened before on the scale it's happening in the past say 15+ years... how is revisiting the past going to enlighten us on our trip, or extermenation. Sure their can be lessons applied to the situation, but it's a new situation that requires new lessons to be learned, not to read a book and learn old ones. I agree that we are very forgiving people and that we do carry a weight of the world on our shoulders, but we aren't the only ones. And i dunno bout you but i would prefer that we lesson our money on military which went up tons this year, and lessen our international spending, and spend more of that here at home.

 

 

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a) peace by non-violent actions

 

b) peace by violent actions

 

You choose b, I choose a.

You still want to make this about what you or I choose, and you have not "gotten" that neither of these matters a bit to terrorists who, BTW, do not even choose peace at all. So, I am still waiting to hear your solution for handling people who do NOT choose peace...who want to destroy our chosen way of life. Please enlighten me to your solution here.

RMT

 

 

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And i dunno bout you but i would prefer that we lesson our money on military which went up tons this year, and lessen our international spending, and spend more of that here at home.

There is a word for this, and it's called an isolationist policy. Not surprising that there have been lessons from history about what happened when we "didn't want to get involved in problems outside our borders". They were called WWI and WWII, and we eventually had to give up our isolationist tendencies, and pay a HUGE price in lives.

I'm not trying to be spiteful, but yet again it seems you have not really understood the lessons of history. If we did what you suggest, history tells us we will only get drawn into a BIGGER conflict where there will be much greater loss of American (and other nationalities) lives.

 

RMT

 

 

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Then be prepared to give up your freedom, and submit to murderous tyrants. Oh yes, and BTW, no freedom of Religion. You'd better study up on the Koran, because you'll have to follow the religion that they tell you to follow.

I'm not advocating all out submission, I'm suggesting cooperation. You come to the world and say, "world, what is wrong with america." we tell you, you fix it, if you get picked on again, we all find them together.

 

 

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I'm not advocating all out submission, I'm suggesting cooperation. You come to the world and say, "world, what is wrong with america." we tell you, you fix it, if you get picked on again, we all find them together.

Tell you what...since it was the terrorists that began this killing on 9/11, you go negotiate that deal with Osama. If he's willing to cooperate, then maybe we can deal.

 

About a likely as John Titor being real.

 

RMT

 

 

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Tell you what...since it was the terrorists that began this killing on 9/11, you go negotiate that deal with Osama. If he's willing to cooperate, then maybe we can deal.

I didn't say make a deal with Osama. I said ask the world. It's other peacefull nations you'd be dealing with. Osama can watch the tape. If he still has a problem, that means he has a problem with everyone. And we'll get him together as long as you don't leave our troops exposed and head off to fight a different war.

 

 

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I said ask the world. It's other peacefull nations you'd be dealing with.

Surrender our sovreignty to the rest of the world? And why, pray tell, should we let the world decide what is best for the USA? Perhaps we should apply the same thing to Canada, huh? How about we tell you what is wrong with Canada and you fix it? You are an idealist. I think you need to be more of a realist.

RMT

 

 

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Surrender our sovreignty to the rest of the world? And why, pray tell, should we let the world decide what is best for the USA? Perhaps we should apply the same thing to Canada, huh? How about we tell you what is wrong with Canada and you fix it? You are an idealist. I think you need to be more of a realist.

Nobody would be asking you to surrender your sovreignty, we would help you build a peacefull nation. Go ahead, tell me whats wrong with Canada, if I agree with what your saying I'll send an email.

 

Here's a Canadian RAP song (he's from Winterpeg!) :

 

mcenroe- The Realest

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Verse 1

 

I'm the realest type of rapper unafraid of not impressing you

 

and using double negatives, confusing when I'm choosing to

 

what could I possibly offer to make you envy me

 

without affiliations that give me credibility

 

I've only had one near death experience and people always ask me why I look so serious

 

if I was a movie then I wouldn't be a comedy

 

in fact it's little more than a dry documentary that even the director would describe as a waste of film

 

limited in release, playing to an empty room

 

but even still wondering what it takes to fill the masses appetite and find success at the till

 

follow me around for a day to see who is he

 

but bring something to read to keep yourself busy it's

 

not a lifestyle of glamor and luxury

 

the boxing up orders and shipping them properly

 

working on my payables stressing on receivables

 

finding time to write songs, try to be believable

 

it's cool with me and my lack of refinement, cause in the end were all living off consignment

 

Chorus

 

How many rappers never listened to the juice crew?

 

how many rappers have to drink metamucil?

 

how many rappers live in front of a computer?

 

how many rappers have switched to diet soda?

 

how many rappers are addicted to star trek?

 

how many rappers never tried a narcotic?

 

how many rappers have never signed a record deal?

 

how many rappers are keeping it real?

 

Verse 2

 

I fly coach, other rappers buy boats

 

with advances on product that will go unsold

 

when breakbread tours the crowd wants an encore, we end up sleeping on somebody's floor

 

in a strange city with a climate that's too cold

 

its times like this I'm thinking that I'm too old

 

how can a fan of 14 relate since its 14 years since I've been in grade 8

 

i walk the streets thinking kids nowadays

 

disgusted how the next generation behaves

 

looking forward to a lifetime with Marcy, decorating a bungalow and buying a car seat

 

watch a teen comedy and feel a little dirty

 

can't relate to a rapper who isn't over 30

 

and other artists seem to care how they're rated

 

but everyone knows the sales figures are inflated

 

its what you sell not the number your pressing

 

and we can tell, despite how your dressing

 

I know the secret to the reason your stressing, to keep it real and not find it depressing

 

Chorus x2

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Nobody would be asking you to surrender your sovreignty, we would help you build a peacefull nation.

Oh we're plenty peaceful, as long as no one is killing us by flying into our buildings with jets. At that point, the USA's mindset changes, and we must always be cautious of who else is out there who can threaten us.

And right about now, with the annoucement from N Korea today, is NOT the time to act "peaceful". It is a time to act firmly. I believe it is not just the USA that is concerned over N Korea's weapons, but most of the rest of the world. If you are not concerned for yourself, in Canada, that's fine and dandy....act all peaceful as you want. (In fact another story today shows just how peaceful you've gotten: Canadian hospitals are now allowed to treat heroin addicts....get this... by giving them heroin!) But if we in the US, and others in Europe understand the threat posed by N Korea, then don't whine about how we deal with it, because it must be dealt with. In point of fact, because I live in Southern California, I am one of the CLOSEST places in mainland USA that Korea could hit with a long range missle. So you'll have to forgive me if I seem to have the attitude that I would like to kick some N Korean ass if they keep up this threatening stance. You see, their missiles could hit me, and I would like to live. Here in the Western US, we have learned that if you don't protect yourself, you won't get protected in time to save your life. That's why some of us have guns, and will use them if anyone starts messing with us. Call it the cowboy mentality, but it is who we are.

 

If the US nuclear capability deters the N Korean threat (as it has earlier threats) then I would think Canada would be grateful. You do realize, because of your country's location, that you are naturally protected by our own US protection. Nice benefit you get from us in that, huh?

 

Ever wonder if Canada has ever given US (that is The United States of America) any financial assistance for that protection benefit you enjoy? I'd say even if you didn't owe us money, that we would have at least earned your loyalty in backing us when we have to "be the tough cop" in the world.

 

But defending freedom and democracy is a lonely job, I guess...

 

RMT

 

 

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Oh we're plenty peaceful, as long as no one is killing us by flying into our buildings with jets

And we're right there with you looking for that guy who thinks killing will solve his problems. However, you leave our troops exposed and open to attack because you are fighting wars elsewhere.

 

Ever wonder if Canada has ever given US (that is The United States of America) any financial assistance for that protection benefit you enjoy?

Shut up about protection. We're trying to protect you by helping to catch Osama and you just want to kill everyone that's not white. We don't need your help, we don't want to kill everyone who talks [censored], we want to live in peace. We really, really, really, really, don't want you to kill people in say you did it to protect us. That's the most disgusting vile thing I can think of.

 

*removed, apologies

 

I really hope you realize someday that you threaten the security of the world by killing people. Unless you killed EVERYONE your not making it any safer. You're just pissing off large groups which will result in MORE VIOLENCE. Sept 11 was picked to be symbolic, to indicate it was a retaliation for years of american violence.

 

YOu know what makes us safe? When the world sees canadians giving Bush the finger when he visits, when we dump bags of pretzels in front of the hotel he plans to eat at. That makes us safe.

 

 

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Tell you what...since it was the terrorists that began this killing on 9/11, you go negotiate that deal with Osama. If he's willing to cooperate, then maybe we can deal.

That's quite an assertion. Making that statement seems to me like spitting in the face of all the hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in all those poor nations in the Mideast and elsewhere that the U.S. has killed in our "surgical strikes" with our "smart bombs" in the name of "freedom" and "peace" over the last several decades.

 

9/11 was not the beginning of terrorism by any means, and the U.S. has been on the terrorist end of the stick many, many times. We are an imperialist power. 9/11 was one little incident in a centuries-long chain of needless death. It was not, as thousands of clueless American "patriots" seem to believe, the origin of all grief and evil in the world. Much, much worse things have happened. The Crusades for instance. The Inquisition. The Black Plague. The tsunami last december. 9/11 was nothing compared to these things, and I don't care how many people lost loved ones in the towers, I wish America as a whole would just shut the hell up about it.

 

Think about Iraq, where we invaded messily and killed more than 100,000 civilians a decade ago. Imagine Iraqis hearing about 9/11 and all these bellowing, grief-stricken Americans yelling about how this act of terrorism is the Worst Possible Thing Imaginable! Imagine how stupid we must have looked to them, and to people in any other country who has experienced tragedy much worse than 9/11. And imagine how angry our ignorance must make them. Whatever happens to us, we must be aware that we will have brought it upon ourselves.

 

 

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