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Pepo,

 

This time you're simply wrong. Neither Ray nor I were attempting to "spin" Qrono's words. We were attempting to put "Big crash" into some perspective based on what Qronos said was his analysis of the "correct" value of the DOW so that we could quantify is prediction.

 

Markets don't simply go up and down or zoom and crash without some definable cause (even though the full cause is usually only known after the fact). Therefore...

 

If we accept that Qronos put 6,800 as the correct value of the market then if it crashes to adjust for the inflated value it has to approach 6,800 during that correction. This is precisely what happens when a market turns from Bull to Bear. It shakes out all of the "false" valuation and falls to its real valuation.

 

But Qronos made another statement that indicates that he doesn't really know how the market works. He pointed to over printing of currency implying that over printing will be a cause of the crash. But over printing of currency has definite telltale marks that are leading indicators of impending negative movement in the DOW. That indicator is inflation. If, for example, more money is in circulation than current prices can justify prices increase because the supply side believes that consumers have "money to burn." When prices increase labor asks for raises to maintain their (new) increased standard of living. This is normal. If the money supply remains out of balance with "reality" then the result is inflation - a price war between production and consumption.

 

If over printing of currency is a major component of a market that acccording to Qronos is 43% over priced (12,000 vs. 6,800) then we should be seeing hyperflation...runaway inflation. We see almost no inflation and inflation has been virtually flat for several years.

 

As I said in my original post, this isn't definitive proof that it can't happen. But at this time there are no indicators suggesting that the current bull market is poised to crash.

 

Yet, eventually, we will have another bear market. That's not a prediction its an economic fact. Qronos, however, didn't specify when this will happen. To make it a valid prediction we have to know when it is to occur otherwise its true but trivial in the sense that given sufficient time it is a self evident truth.

 

 

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Darby,

 

But at this time there are no indicators suggesting that the current bull market is poised to crash.

 

I would disagree...

 

The 7 Trillion Dollar Federal Debt

 

The holding of that debt to China, Japan, England and Saudi Arabia

 

The 500 Billion Federal Deficit

 

The ever expanding Trade Deficit... The number escapes me but it might be 70 Billion a year..

 

The use of petro-dollars as the backing of the dollar (Dollar is just paper)

 

The practice of offshoring companies out the United States

 

The practice of outsouring people to low-wage countries such as China and India

 

The loss of manufacturing jobs...

 

The use of foreign exchange rates to prop up the dollar (Dollar is just paper)

 

The overuse of stock options and stock issuance

 

The number of companies who are offshore but listed in Dow

 

The economy numbers being misled led like the "unemployment" number...

 

The housing bubble where prices have fallen 10% nationwide recently...

 

The over use of home owner loans to finance lifestyle and debt obligations...

 

The foreclosure rate skyrocketing...

 

The savings rate at zero for Americans

 

The use of financial crack such as credit cards

 

And the stock market is only a tool for short term gain... Really unrelated to the overall economy... Money out versus Money in and Money saved is the 'economy'

 

America is financial 'toast' as they say... America is gone It is just a shell now... A crash is coming... not related to Qronos but it is coming... It may be more of a slow implosion though...

 

TheCigMan

 

 

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CigMan,

 

You may or may not be correct...but your post has nothing to do with either Peepo's criticism or Qronos' "prediction", which is what Ray and I were addressing.

 

A personal outlook of "doom & gloom" is more reflective of the psyche of the person who holds the opinion than it is a picture of the reality of that world.

 

That you lack self confidence and see a world of darkness doesn't equate to a world that demands that position. It could very well be that because you aren't particilarly comfortable with your personal lot in life that you seek out confirmation as to why and then generalize it to the whole so that you don't feel so alone in your misery.

 

Me...I'm an optomist. I feel pretty good about life, the world and myself. But that's just me, I guess.

 

 

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Wa1ex,

 

Nice charts, but there was a caveat in the first paragrah on the site where you obtained them.

 

That much aside, the charts don't tell the complete picture of the state of the debt.

 

In 1950 the charts indicate that the per capita debt was ~$2,000. It doesn't mention that in 1950 the per capita income was ~$1,510, i.e. the per capita debt represented 133% of per capita income.

 

The charts say that per capita debt today is ~$25,000. It doesn't mention that per capita income today is ~$46,326, i.e. per capita debt represents 54% of per capita income.

 

In other words, we've reduced debt per capita a whopping 246% relative to per capita income over the past 56 years. Not bad, eh, Canadian? ;)

 

 

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In Reply to: This time you're simply wrong. Neither Ray nor I were attempting to "spin" Qrono's words. We were attempting to put "Big crash" into some perspective based on what Qronos said was his analysis of the "correct" value of the DOW so that we could quantify is prediction.

 

And that's understandable, the only problem is as I stated we don't know what he meant for sure. Also feeling pretty good about life has nothing to do with the reality of what is going on in the nation. We are heading for a crash. Now don't get me wrong I'm all for felling good about life but I'm not going to say that because someone says they think something bad is going to happen that they are not comfortable with their personal lot in life. Was Qronos a Time Traveler? I don't think so, but he did bring up some very interesting things that are going on.

 

 

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Darby,

 

You can be child like in your view of the world and say 'everything wonderful' when adults know everything isn't Or you just mad you are dead wrong.

 

You stated and I quote "But at this time there are no indicators suggesting that the current bull market is poised to crash."

 

Not mention that every major hi is follow by a low statistically speaking...

 

"A personal outlook of "doom & gloom" is more reflective of the psyche of the person who holds the opinion than it is a picture of the reality of that world."

 

Ever hear of realism? Or did you plug me in your CIA analysis machine :) lol You crack me up :)

 

"That you lack self confidence and see a world of darkness doesn't equate to a world that demands that position. It could very well be that because you aren't particilarly comfortable with your personal lot in life that you seek out confirmation as to why and then generalize it to the whole so that you don't feel so alone in your misery."

 

Save the pop psychology for someone who knows psychology... I am miserable lol Really I didn't know.. :)

 

What gloom & doom have spoken of? Anything I said about Titor's prediction was based on real world events and not necessarily my opinion but a corelation to news matching his predictions.

 

I equate you and friends here to disinformation agents... What is your true motiviation escapes me yet..

 

The economy is horrible... Phony Job Unemployment Numbers and Massaged Growth Numbers don't hide it...

 

If you read more... Or wasn't conned by reporting and news media... Any intelligent person would know that...

 

"Me...I'm an optomist. I feel pretty good about life, the world and myself. But that's just me, I guess."

 

Sounds like you are delusional to me... But that's just me... I quess... :)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion

 

And actually I more of a surfer dude than you could possibly imagine... Chill Man :)

 

TheCigMan

 

 

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Cig,

 

The economy is horrible... Phony Job Unemployment Numbers and Massaged Growth Numbers don't hide it...

 

If you read more... Or wasn't conned by reporting and news media... Any intelligent person would know that...

Ever hear of the Boy Who Cried Wolf?

Let's setup a scenario that will help to explain my point:

 

Our friend CigSmokingMan is sighted out in a swanky California (let's put him in Sonoma) restaurant engaging in his favorite past time of smoking. But Ciggy is remiss in that he has forgotten that the LAW prevents him from smoking in restaurants in this fine state. Now, there are two different types of reactions that we could follow:

 

1) Someone at the bar nudges the guy next to him and says "Hey, look at that idiot over there...he's breaking the law." Then that guy gets up from the bar and walks over to a table of people and exclaims while pointing at Ciggy "Can you believe that guy? He is endangering all our lives by blatantly disrespecting our fine state law." At that point one of the people at the table gets up and walks over to a waitress and begins to tell her about how this "smoking in restaurants is a blatant conspiracy... and that you and the manager and the owner are simply IN CAHOOTs with the CigMan, with your ultimate intentions being to endanger our lives with carcinogens." Finally, the waitress leaves the restaurant and walks up the street to the local TV station where she gives an "exclusive interview" on how she "has information" on her boss that incriminates him such that he KNEW CigMan was coming to the restuarant, and he PURPOSEFULLY did NOTHING to explain to CigMan that here in California we don't allow smoking in restaurants." At the end of the interview she mentions that she is open to selling her story to anyone who is interested in the rights.

 

That is one way to handle this smoking conspiracy. And we can see just how much it got done in handling the real source of the problem. :) But there is another way:

 

2) RMT happens to be in Sonoma for a wine festival, and he wanders into the eating establishment to see CigMan puffing away while trying to figure out how to eat his sushi. RMT notices that there is a buzz around the restaurant and he keeps hearing things like "conspiracy" and "selfish capitalists", and "I knew we shouldn't have let WalMart come to town." Calmly, RMT walks up to CigMan at his table, removes the offensive cigarette from CigMan's mouth, and drops it into his water glass. As he walks away from the table RMT is heard to say "We have LAWS in this state that frown on smoking in eating establishments. You would do well to respect those laws while you are here. Have a nice day."

 

I think the point about what CigMan does here is now obvious. Talk is cheap, and too much talk stokes the fire of conspiracy (whether there really is a conspiracy or not).

 

RMT

 

 

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Darby:

 

I stand corrected the debt per capita was not included

 

to look at the overall picture.

 

But Also remember the debt is accumulating interest

 

the higher the debt...The happier the banks are.

 

Einstein once said:

 

compunding is "the greatest mathematical discovery of all time."

 

So with that said:

 

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of

 

$1.62 billion per day since September 30, 2005.

 

Source:

 

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

 

Will household income (after inflation) grow at the same rate

 

the interest on the debt is accumulating? I guess it depends on how

 

Optimistic or Pessimistic someone is...

 

In other words, we've reduced debt per capita a whopping 246% relative to per capita income over the past 56 years. Not bad, eh, Canadian?

Not not bad at all, Im hoping the economy stays this way, I truly do. On a side note

 

Im Salvadoran/Canadian so I find the use of the "eh? " term funny as well.

 

spacer.png

 

So Looking at the piechart Canada owns 48 Billion from the US debt

 

what does that mean?

 

From another site:

 

"Someone should be glad the foreign debt owners are willing to help keeping the US tax rates lower, and the U.S. economic growth rate higher, by lending the U.S. their dollars to help the U.S. finance such things as the war on terror, Katrina repairs, and the future Border btw the U.S. and Mexico."

 

But since I am neither a U.S citizen nor have full understanding of the Economics and Politics

 

my points of view could be wrong, but I have no problem accepting this as long as the information given is acurate and non biased. I have seen/experienced how corrupt and dangerous a government can be but the United States is far away from this, reason it is the most envied country of the world.

 

 

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Peepo,

 

And that's understandable, the only problem is as I stated we don't know what he meant for sure. Also feeling pretty good about life has nothing to do with the reality of what is going on in the nation. We are heading for a crash. Now don't get me wrong I'm all for felling good about life but I'm not going to say that because someone says they think something bad is going to happen that they are not comfortable with their personal lot in life. Was Qronos a Time Traveler? I don't think so, but he did bring up some very interesting things that are going on.

Rather than saying, "Spin, spin, spin" that's a much more reasonable and thoughtful response. I said that CigMan has a general doom & gloom outlook on life because that's the picture that he portrays about his view of life in the totality of his posts - not just that one post. Everything's a "guvmit" conspiracy. If that's his view I certainly have no ability, or even intention, to change it. It is what it is.

 

Was Qronos a time traveler? No - he wasn't. He was just another in a long line of Titor follow-ons who choose to use a time travel forum for a political soap box rather than getting onto the soap box via a political discussion forum. He stated his opinion of what the world appears to be to himself, made some very broad "predictions" that can't really be tested and he found some like minds relative to his political positions.

 

Now, there's really nothing bad, evil or wrong about any of that in so far as stating his political opinion goes. But we're discussing time travel. He offered nothing definitive to support his claim.

 

I'm surprised that none of the "conspiracy" fans who are also believers (to varying degrees) have never questioned the obvious government conspiracy/abuse of power that the would-be time travelers posit.

 

It seems that the sole purpose of time travel, according to our many Titor follow-ons - as well as Titor himself - is to use it as a government propoganda machine to influence the decisions of the populace to turn against their governments through the use of scare tactics. Remember that every time traveler uses the same plot twist - this isn't their world and this isn't their nation. It's similar but there's that "divergence" plot enhancer. In other words wherever they come from and whatever their nation's name happens to be it isn't any nation on this planet.

 

England, Germany, France and just about every other nation on our planet is "similar" to this nation. If those same conspiracy fans thought that their government was doing precisely what our time travelers do, attempting to influence the the population of a foreign nation to revolt against their government by sending agents provocateur among them stating that this or that nation will blow them up if they don't conform to a standard of behavior that we demand, they'd have a coronary as they attempted to write their posts. They'd go into a purple rage, they'd be so worked up.

 

Yet when a time traveler does the same - nary a word. Why is that?

 

 

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wa1ex,

 

Good job on the response. I actually threw you a red herring because I simply tossed out a statistic but didn't relate it to any economic theory. Yes, Peepo, that was actually "spin". ;)

 

But you shouldn't simply look at a nation's debt to make a decision about its economic health. Debt is only the "Liability" section of a balance sheet. To get a complete picture you have to look at the Assets. From those you obtain Equity, A+L =E (assets plus liabilities equal equity, loosely Net Worth).

 

Then look at the Profit and Loss statement. In this case, look at Gross Domestic Product and Gross Domestic Income.

 

In the case of the USA you have about $8 trillion of debt. But you also have $13.27 trillion of Gross Domestic Income for the 2nd Quarter of 2006 of which 10.9 trillion dollars is Personal Income (National Income less Corporate profits) and $8.1 trillion in disposable income.

 

Do we have debt. We sure do - and I wish if was less than it is. Do we have the ability to pay the debt off. Yes. We do. The people own 32% of the debt, Social Security owns 42% of the debt. Only 26% is foreign owned and that debt is in the form of loans and trade credits that we use to stimulate both domestic and foreign economic growth. Without that foreign debt countries like China would have no capital to use to become a world trading partner...and a few million more Chinese nationals would starve to death every year. That would be a very bad situation for the Far East. It would force China into making the decision as to whether they simply wait for a sufficient number of people to starve to death in order to bring their population into line with their means of production or to engage in some sort of "economic excursion" to appropriate to themselves new markets in the region. In other words, they would have to decide what countries to invade.

 

Debt in itself is not bad. Debt is used to grow an economy.

 

http://bea.gov/bea/newsrel/gdpnewsrelease.htm

 

 

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England, Germany, France and just about every other nation on our planet is "similar" to this nation. If those same conspiracy fans thought that their government was doing precisely what our time travelers do, attempting to influence the the population of a foreign nation to revolt against their government by sending agents provocateur among them stating that this or that nation will blow them up if they don't conform to a standard of behavior that we demand, they'd have a coronary as they attempted to write their posts. They'd go into a purple rage, they'd be so worked up.

 

Yet when a time traveler does the same - nary a word. Why is that?

Thank you, Darby. Being selective in what you "report" and what you "confront" is also a sly form of propaganda, which has the same intent as alleged "government plots"... to twist someone's mind to believe their propaganda. But no one can control the man who is truly free.

 

RMT

 

 

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Gentlemen,

 

Nice chart. But the government has been tapping the Social Security Trust Fund for years. So the pie chart ah not so accurate. :)

 

Currently, it takes 2 Billion a day in foreign investment in Government Bonds to keep America 'solvent'

 

As for my doom&gloom, I post newspapers articles from mostly major papers and news outlets. If there is doom&gloom it is your reading of those articles.

 

And RMT I wouldn't go to California in the first place because I know you can't smoke... :)

 

Have Nice Day,

 

TheCigMan

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

In reply to:

 

The new bill that just passed is one big step in the direction of the NEW WORLD ORDER.If it passes all the way, the middle class people of this nation will be destroyed.But that's not the bad part.The globalist will then have a reason to chip the illegals.Then laws will be passed to chip kids.Then adults.

 

Well it looks like Qronos 16's mission failed they are talking about passing that bill all the way now.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Re: he was right

 

Not to mention that a guy by the name of Mitch Battros has also been parading his own "equation" which has been claiming that increases in solar activity are going to spell doom. So all this tells us is that Qronos was a big fan of the pseudoscientists who are predicting gloom and doom. No surprise since it also appears Qronos bought into a bunch of other conspiracy claptrap which cannot be proven as true.

 

 

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Re: he was right

 

Is it just me, or does every single of Indazona's posts contain its fair share of piss and vinegar in them?

 

1. I was wondering if anyone else thought it suspicious that PamelaM217 and hiwaybucks shared the exact same IP address.

 

2. Not buying it. These IPs also trace back to an anon IP service. So are you flat-out denying you are not posting as hiwaybucks?

 

3. Are you so ignorant that you cannot see this...or are you part of the crew too?

 

4. Can you show otherwise, or is coindidence all you can muster?

 

5. there are other ways to refute what you are inferring about it just being chance that you and "others" on this forum

 

6. would also know MODs do not like posts showing up in the wrong forum, dear shill.

 

7. Therefore, if you understand science as much as you claim, you understand these are disjoint sets.

 

8. So it would seem that the kids who are saying "no way Jose" are a bit more informed than you.

 

9. You can safely admit to being wrong here because, in fact, you are.

 

10. Heh heh. Profit any way you can get it, huh Peter?

 

11. No surprise since it also appears Qronos bought into a bunch of other conspiracy claptrap which cannot be proven as true.

 

 

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Re: he was right

 

"And what is it that can not be proven true???"

 

You're joking, right? Do you want me to start a list? OK, I will start one. And I probably will only get so far in this post. But you go ahead and feel free to start showing how any of this can be proven true. I'll even number them for you:

 

1) We have warned you 2 times before.Did you listen? No!!

 

2) My name is Wyatt and I was born 11-3-2041.I come from the year 2065.2 of my years ago another one came here on a mission that was a secret one.

 

3) So now group 6 of 10 or Qronos16 which is 3 people to a Qronos unit have been sent to pick up the efforts of the resistance in this time line. (Ed: Why is group 6 of 10 Qronos16? Why not Qronos6?)

 

4) Right now you are loosing your right and what remains of the United States Of America.If you do not stop it the boarders of the USA will go away and you will be known as the Americas. (ed: Note misspelling of "losing"....Qronos is edumacated, no?)

 

5) The middle class of this country will be destroyed and the economy will buckle and fall.

 

6) Not to mention the race wars that are about to start.

 

7) I'm sure you think this is all bull.Is it?I could be a nut right?Or I could be telling the truth.Which is it?I will tell you this is the truth. (Ed: No need trying to prove that this is bull. I believe that. But go ahead and prove he was telling the truth.)

 

8) You are all going to be marked soon. (Ed: Vague, but based on later posts of his you would have to assume he meant being "chipped")

 

9) Scott gave you the details of what is to come, and after he came home and saw that not much had changed, he fought for 2 years for another mission to this time.

 

10) The new bill that just passed is one big step in the direction of the NEW WORLD ORDER.If it passes all the way, the middle class people of this nation will be destroyed.

 

11) The globalist will then have a reason to chip the illegals.Then laws will be passed to chip kids.Then adults.

 

12) It is known that building 7 was blown up to conceal the high tech equipment that was in that building to home the plains in on the targets. (Ed: He refers to WTC building 7)

 

13) By making Illegal Aliens legal, or amnesty. (Ed: By the way, history since Qronos has proven this one is NOT true. No amnesty was passed.)

 

14) Jobs will require you to have a chip to get into work or clock in.

 

15) call Alex Jones and ask him how he knew that the world trade center was going to be attacked 2 days before it happened. He has proof he knew and said it on the air 2 days before it happened on his show. (Ed: This has also been proven to be false)

 

16) Before the year 2000 Art and his wife took $80,000 and some gold and buried it in the ground at his home.

 

17) You can list all the links you want, but the facts are over 70% of Americans no longer believe the official story of the government. (Ed: I believe in this very thread his facts were shown to be untrue)

 

18) No one has explained why building 7 fell? (Ed: I believe the 9-11 report did explain it.)

 

19) New Orleans is the city of the dead in 2065. Why does it have that name? It's not there anymore. That city will be wiped off the map. (Ed: Not proven as yet, and no way to prove it.)

 

20) The US stock market will make it all the way to 12ooo and then some and crash big. (Ed: Here is a big one. Not happened, and not proveable.)

 

21) Some of the "Time Travelers" that has posted on this board and other boards are real. (Ed: Have fun proving that one.)

 

22) Alex Jones was contacted before that day in 2001 by a Time Traveler and given info on what was going to take place that day. He then warned people on his talk show about what was going to happen 2 days before it took place.

 

23) Time Travel starts in the 2030's

 

24) I'm me John is who John is. Scott is who Scott is. Yes John did loose his temper. Did he loose it the way others have? (Ed: None of this is proveable. And he still has a problem with "lose").

 

25) The answer to your question is New Orleans will be hit again by a storm soon. (Ed: "Soon"?)

 

26) The death told from Katrina is closer to 7000.

 

27) This year I would also be looking up to the North East at New York City. (Ed: For what? The year's almost up)

 

28) In my time gold is the big thing.

 

29) In the coming days I will post things here on this board that will come to pass.

 

30) Someone asked me if newspapers are still around. Yes, the news is transmitted right onto the newspaper itself from the net. (Ed: Wouldn't even know how to go about proving that one.)

 

31) Solar cells are 70% more effective then they are now.

 

32) Yes this is true.

 

33) The NWO is that which is trying to kill the United States Of America and turn it into The American Union, and kill the US Dollar and turn it into the Amero. In my past this is how it went down. (Ed: How you gonna prove that?)

 

34) With the Mexican thing going on now, this is what they are trying to use to get the civil unrest started.

 

35) The United States Of America is almost dead!!! The American Union will replace it.

 

36) What will happen? Once the AU is established and even before, all the animals in the USA will be chipped and tracked. Then the Mexicans will be chipped then the kids will be chipped to keep them safe. After that all of you. If you do not take the chipped you will not be able to get a job.

 

37) Troops will be on the American streets and there will be Marshall law. (Ed: I believe he meant "martial law".)

 

38) The market will reach 12000 and then crash big!!!

 

OK, I grow weary. But I think I have given you enough to try to prove. Good luck and enjoy.

 

 

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Re: he was right

 

"Is it just me, or does every single of Indazona's posts contain its fair share of piss and vinegar in them?"

 

So? And what exactly are you implying by that? Are you saying I am not allowed to hold and express my opinions here? Sheesh! For all the negative BS that is being slung here, I wonder why it is such a crime for me to have a negative view of the people that think of nothing but negative futures?

 

 

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