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Is it a mistake or conspiracy to WORSHIP Jesus?


TheCigSmokinMan3
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Hi,

 

I was wondering if it is a mistake or conspiracy to WORSHIP Jesus. I believe bible stated GOD wanted the people to WORSHIP HIM and no other Gods or idols in the first testament.

 

Are people who worship Jesus making a mistake? His image on the cross is everywhere in the Catholic church. Is Jesus being worshipped as an IDOL? Shouldn't people be worshipping GOD

 

If Jesus is the 'literal son of GOD' he still is not GOD... :)

 

I believe Jesus was a 'good soul' whether preordained or through life's tests. I believe GOD smiled upon him for his devotion.

 

And is the 'Holy Trinity' a mistake? Are they one person? Or three? I don't think Jesus would call out to GOD asking him to forgive his tormentors if he was GOD?

 

If you wanted to drive people away from GOD's favor, a good plan would to have them worship his saints or favorites. I believe this is working with the 'Jesus' devotees. I don't think GOD would be pleased people worshiping them instead of HIM. <Just my opinion>.

 

Tests in very simple logic has failed the Catholic Church and the Bible Belt.

 

Should you be a CHRISTian or GODian? I'm a GODian. :)

 

TheCigMan

 

 

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Cig,

 

I was wondering if it is a mistake or conspiracy to WORSHIP Jesus.

You might need to study-up a bit more. I grew-up Roman-Catholic and it was made clear to us we DO NOT worship Jesus, but rather we follow his example. We FOLLOW Jesus to God by emulating his exemplary life as a man.

At least that was what I was taught "back in the day". :)

 

RMT

 

 

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But in reality, people are WORSHIPING Jesus

So you are the authority for what Christians are doing? Now who is being condescending? :)

Note the :)

 

I was also taught that the reason for the images of Christ on the cross in churches was to remind us of his sacrifice for us. It was NOT an idol which people were to worship.

 

Maybe you should go to Church some Sunday and really study the Mass and Who is being worshipped?

 

RMT

 

 

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RMT,

 

"So you are the authority for what Christians are doing? Now who is being condescending? :)"

 

I have 'expertise' in many areas... :) I thought this was a discussion board? :)

 

"Maybe you should go to Church some Sunday and really study the Mass and Who is being worshipped?"

 

Well Catholics say Lord alot and Lord Jesus? It gets very confusing :)

 

No longer Catholic :) Sorry :)

 

TheCigMan

 

 

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I have 'expertise' in many areas...

But based on your statements in this thread, it appears that your expertise in the Catholic Canon is..... rusty? :)

Well Catholics say Lord alot and Lord Jesus? It gets very confusing

Yes, they do. He is their savior, right? Most often they are invoking his name and asking for help.

But I am sure you will find a conspiracy angle for anything, right? :)

 

RMT

 

 

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Wow first post! been lurking for a bit.

 

Sorry RMT but it is you who is rusty on the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

This is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. (second edition)

 

section one/the profession of faith/IV. Lord

 

"446 In the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the ineffable Hebrew name YHWH, by which God revealed himself to Moses, is rendered as Kyrios, "Lord." From then on, "Lord" becomes the more usual name by which to indicate the divinity of Israel's God. The New Testament uses this full sense of the title "Lord" both for the Father and -what is new- for Jesus, who is thereby recognized as God Himself."

 

This in reference to the section of the creed in which it states:

 

"and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord"

 

They have given a specific meaning to the word "Lord." The Roman Catholic Church has defined the word "Lord" to mean God.

 

I havent even begun to touch on the doctrine of the Trinity. A brief summary is that it is the belief that there is three parts to the Godhead all equal and all God. These three are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

 

This is really basic teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.

 

The Roman Catholic most definitely worships Jesus as God.

 

 

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Greetings DRsuess:

 

I stand partially corrected.

 

They have given a specific meaning to the word "Lord." The Roman Catholic Church has defined the word "Lord" to mean God.

 

I havent even begun to touch on the doctrine of the Trinity.

Yes, when you consider that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are deemed as One, in THAT context one could claim Catholics worship Jesus, but they are worshipping Jesus AS God...

The statement from CigMan that I was questioning was his implication that Catholics worship Jesus instead of God. So to clarify what I stated above, Roman Catholics do not worship Jesus as Jesus, but rather they worship God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit as One.

 

From the Nicene Creed (Profession of Faith):

 

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.

There it is right there. So you are correct, good DR, that "Lord" represents the totality of God as the One being with three aspects. And the Nicene Creed makes it quite clear that Jesus is NOT worshipped instead of God, but AS God. So my point to CigMan still stands with regard to his conspiracy angle. :)

Thanks for chiming in, DRseuss (did you bring your green eggs and ham?). Yes, it has been awhile since I have been to church, so I admit I am also a bit rusty on the Canon. One thing that I found interesting, which is what caused me to broaden my spiritual beliefs beyond Catholicism, is the fact that the "holy trinity" is really a "borrowed" idea from... you guessed it... Qabalistic teachings of Judaism. In my own view, the Catholic Church "got it wrong" when it formed the Holy Trinity as a set of 3 masculine entities. In my opinion, the REAL Holy Trinity is quite obvious when you examine the reproductive system of mankind... the three legs of the "proper" Holy Trinity are:

 

Father

 

Mother

 

Child (a neutral offspring which can be either male or female)

 

Without a doubt THIS Holy Trinity represents mankind's power of Creation.

 

;)

 

RMT

 

 

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  • 2 months later...

Well in my oppinon, Christianity was a means to disstroy the Roman Empire.

 

If you look at Christianity and Roman beliefs youll notice that there the exact opposite.

 

For exapmle. A NO NO in Christianity is Homosexualty. Which most of us know the romans were not ashamed to live how they were born. Jesus as we all know will say NO!

 

Another fine example is that the Romans stole fertile lands away from the rightfull owners, and giving in return worthless plots that couldnt even grow weeds. This caused mass starvation. While Jesus can feed thousands with one loaf of bread and turn water to wine.

 

The idea of one god that would always forgive and his ideals of being well with your fellow man was a great sound to those who lost there land or were wronged in some way or another by the Romans, wich happened on a regular basis. A good peice of propoganda to help the common people escape spritualy and pesecution. As for Roman Cathlics. Well either you believe in multiple gods(Romans) or one single god.(Catholics). I dont think a religeon should embrace one side of a relion and dissgaurd another. Roman cathlic is sort of a oxymoron in my view. Their are tons more but I dont want to ramble.

 

Mistake? no. Conspiracy? no. Its more like a mockery. Because alot of the storys within the bible have Roman roots. As to say youve been defeted and now we tell your stories as we see fit.

 

Please dont think im trying to push my oppion. I know that the spiritle side of a person is not to be pushed or challanged and Im not tryin to offend ANYONE!

 

 

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  • 2 months later...
  • 2 months later...

Old thread, good subject.

 

>I was wondering if it is a mistake or conspiracy to WORSHIP Jesus. I believe bible stated GOD wanted the people to WORSHIP HIM and no other Gods or idols in the first testament.<

 

Abraham's father was an idol maker. One day, while his father was out getting more clay to make more statues, young Abraham broke all of his father's idols. When his father returned and saw all the broken statues, he asked Abraham what happened. Young Abraham said "they all came to life and fought and destroyed each other". His father replied- "that is not possible- they are only lumps of clay", to which Abraham replied "if they're nothing but lumps of clay, then why do people worship them?"

 

It is a mistake to worship anyone but God- there is no god but God.

 

The Trinity is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. And all major religions of the world agree God is three parts- for example:

 

>>Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." Genesis 1:26<<

 

Who is "us"??

 

Here's how I look at it. There is no god but God and God is God. God may be three parts, but God is still God. Jesus may be God but Jesus was a man and in that regard not God... Jesus did not create the world- God did... quite possibly along with Jesus ("Let us make man in our image", Jesus was a man, mankind was made in His image), but God's name was named, not Jesus'- Yahwey.

 

Yahwey is a name for God. "Yahwey" is the sound your mouth makes as you breathe in and out- (breathe in "yah", breathe out "wey"). "Yahwey" is meant to remind us that it is God who gave our bodies life and who can take it away in a flash, like lightning, Yahwey is the name we give God to show our graditude for our lives- for our every single breath.

 

As such, I worship God (or Yahwey, or Allah or whomever He, the singular Being is) and not a deified man such as Jesus.

 

And when I die- I am certain I will meet everyone- including Jesus. And when I do, I will tell Him "I am sorry I did not worship you, instead I worshipped your Father- God" and He will understand.

 

"Religions are meant to unify people, not divide them." -Gandhi

 

 

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The Trinity is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. And all major religions of the world agree God is three parts

I suppose this will come as a great surprise to the Hindus, who believe in countless of gods. Or the Jews, who rise every morning with the prayer of "Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One".

 

The Holy Trinity is a concept unique to Christianity. The three other monotheistic religions do not have such a concept. And bear in mind that not all major religions are monotheistic.

 

But let us end on a positive note:

 

"Religions are meant to unify people, not divide them." -Gandhi

And in the end, they will.

 

Amen.

 

 

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>I suppose this will come as a great surprise to the Hindus, who believe in countless of gods. Or the Jews, who rise every morning with the prayer of "Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One".<

 

>>"Religions are meant to unify people, not divide them." -Gandhi <<

 

Do you disagree?

 

And while we're on it, did you know that Moses was from India? Where else did he come from? Where else did he flee after killing an Egyptian slave-driver (see: Genesis). Must you live to provoke controversy? Be at peace; open your mind.

 

 

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Jmpet, your statement that "all major religions agree that God is three parts" is factually wrong. Surely people are allowed to correct factual mistakes, without being accused of "provoking controversy" or "undermining unity"?

 

Also, I don't think the Hindus, Muslims, Bahai and Jews will be very pleased with your erronous statement regarding their beliefs. Real unity comes from respecting the actual beliefs of others, and not from twisting their beliefs to become more similar to our own.

 

 

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  • 4 months later...

I think its a big whoopsie to believe in anything...except living out your life and hopefully loving it as best you can.

 

* Mankind is 8-3 MILLION years old. Many fears, due to so many scientific unknowns, many gods and rituals to ward off icky stuff happening...things we find barbaric today.

 

* Jesus was born 2 THOUSAND years ago....a prophet, one of MANY prophets at the same time as he....it just took off better....due to circumstances?

 

* Bible was written....at the earliest 1400BC....so that makes the one God concept 3400 years...as opposed to 8-3 MILLION years of people.

 

* Evolution is fairly much a proven fact....they have the bones and DNA to prove it.

 

* NDEs have been explained via NAG (only discovered this year)....a chemical that is released into the brain (in the last 10-15 minutes of real brain death) which is LIKE ketamine. Its the brains last ditch effort to "save" itself. Heaven or hell depends on the memories stored within you. (see http://hometown.aol.com/letimberwolf/myhomepage/news.html)

 

* No doubt that millions have people have survived death and come back with the stories about the NAG episodes....which then "supports" the theory of life after death....NOT.

 

*We know (roughly) when the sun will die and how. We know why eclipses, the aurora borialis, floods, tidal waves, earthquakes happen...and closer to knowing when. Science has answered so much.

 

So...its neither a mistake or a conspiracy.....just human nature to want to believe in something. Our egos are there to protect us. Our humanity needs to believe we and our offspring will survive death. If we truly knew it was all pointless, what would be the point of living or being kind to others? No conscience....no love, no bonding with mates or infants,....human extinction. DNA...like mould, needs to replicate to survive....so we evolve. God/Jeus has nothing to do with it. As in ancient Egypt....Aten was a one-god for a short reign of Tutankhamens father...it got replaced with another or many eventually. The same will probably happen again...if religion isnt squashed by commonsense.

 

 

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  • 1 year later...

I have to agree with RMT on this one.

 

The only thing that irks me is when people have a bible, read it for the story; but when they need to think about what it means, they run to the priest to let them do the thinking for them.

 

I could be wrong, but I would imagine the priest is meant to be a spiritual 'guide' -

 

not a literal translator.

 

If cig man wants to get so deep but yet remain to hold a finger to point ...

 

I think he should be learning Hebrew/Greek first. That way he could rely on literal translations with a little more reliability ;)

 

The only problem even then is...

 

the more we know, the less we know :oops:

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
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