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I am here for now on assignment


DarwinMurphy
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>There is only one universe, and only one time-flow. It is how we swim through it that matters.<

>>...I have to reiterate that there is only ONE time stream, and there is only one universe. Everything else you've heard, no matter how well it appeals to your base logic, is bunk! Paradoxes don't really exist.<

>>>There are no divergences, only changes, and only those outside the loop can see the changes as they happen. <<<

>>>>I'll say it one last time, there is no divergence, there are no alrtnates; regardless of what popuar fiction and scientists say, and the universe isd fully capable of adjusdting to asnything.<<<<

How do you explain this:

>Our goal is to alter certain things so that humankind can grow out if it's infancy into an enlightened and peaceful existence, without the evils of greed and ego swaying that growth into a stunted demon.<

How can you change an unchangable thing?

ALSO- What would happen if someone went back in time with one of those "atom bombs in a suitcase" and set it off in, say- December 8, 1941 in NYC? You're saying that wouldn't affect the timeline?

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Other comments...

>I also usually have a few month's worth of income for whatever era I'm in on my person.<

So you have money from the past and/or future? Can we see it?

>I could go anywhere and proclaim myself to be myself and all they'd do, is to ask me to leave the building.

Actually, they'd ask you for your ID. And if you had no ID, you would be arrested for vagrancy. You do have ID, don't you? How did you get it? Do you have a driver's license? How did you get that?

>I got reversed and spent two days at Yaz, and then got shot back here to observe the development of the brain can, as we call it. This is a particular bit of computer advancement that will eventually change the way computers are made and used. It will be small news here, but I have to keep looking.<

I thought you were here to alter certain things so that humankind can grow out if it's infancy, right?

No- wait!

>I'm actually here to take a count of how many are open to the idea of time travel, and how many think that I'm full of snarf.<

Make up your mind.

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>we call it the infernasl (not my name fo rit but it fits) because when you shoot through it it's like going through Hell! It's like having every atom in your body shooting off in polar opposite directions at once, and having every mistake or bad deed you've ever dfown crammed down your throat for infinity. I usually vomit, an dothersw are lucky enough to pass out. thephysical pressure is paramount, and you cannot breath for what has to be forever. It's like dying and being awake during the trial.<

How do they replicate the impossible-to-record brain waves to make sure you don't come out the other end like scrambled eggs?

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Designer, your end question more or less catches my meaning. It is difficult to refer to my, or your, personal future (which is subjective) whilst speaking about THE future from any temporal point of reference.

It gets further muddled for me as two or so weeks ago I was in 2004, then a week later I was in 2001, and now I am in 2007. However, for you, two weeks ago you were in June of 2007, etc.

I believe that if you slightly modify your statement to something like: the subjective personal past is the observed, the subjective personal present is the observing, and the personal subjective future is that not yet observed.

All I was trying to say is that the future is already happening/ has happened / will happen in the same exact instant that we are perceiving as the 'now'. Just because I haven't gotten to my personal tomorrow doesn't mean that tomorrow isn't there.

Or I could go the other route that was initially explained to me, with the same end result (I'm paraphrasing here, but the idea is the same). There, qwuite simply, is no such thing as time. It is merely a subjective set of blinders that we impose upon ourselves to keep our egos intact.

And as far as multiple now's? As I understand things there is only one timestream, at least that we can access. Some of the others feel differently, but the idea of altering the timestream seems inane to me, if one is not making changes to their own time. As I said before, if that were the case, then we'd all have just left for greener pastures in another timeline.

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Recall;

Lunar-men? My refernces to the Lunars? It has nothing to do with the moon...it's a slang for crazy, such as lunatic, such as lunacy, (and such as you are probably going to call me).

They are a very small group of unorganized rebels, criminal types mostly, that do short-shoots for purely personal gain. Most of them get fragged before they are in operation very long. The competition amongst themselves and the UIC is pretty cruel.

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Ah-hem!

Anarchy does not alter or slant forces in physics.

I would tell more, but leading people on like a hunk of meat is something that some people will not ever learn. Some even claim they can be criminals while doing that while they are doing that leading on. God does not take these Acts lightly, so has devised a plan to deal with it.

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Dar

You say there are no paradoxes. Let say you are a time traveler saved someone from dying in a car crash in the past in the 80's and he is still alive in 2007. The only way of reconciling everyone memory is by adding memories to all the people that are associated with that person in the present. You have three choices.

1. Divergence gives you a false copy to save a person not the original dead person reflected down the time line. No time quake. And the person does not come alive in the future.

2. The T-MASS is too great for you to save the person life and the person does not get saved.

3. Everything is now so the time traveler always meant to save him with everyone memories updated or the memories were already there latently.

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jmpet;

good show!

On 'divergences' & 'alternates': AS I said, there are no divergences, as the term was so politely explained to me, only changes. Do you diverge a baby's diaper, or do you change it? A divergence implies a splitting off. We don't diverge, we change it.

Alternates do not exist as I understand things. The idea that there is a world and time that contains every possible outcome, and the effects thereafter, of myself, and every other being in the universe, is akin to inserting "something magical happens here" to whisk away a percieved problem that would be caused by flowing free through time instead being swept up in the current.

'changing the past' & 'changing the unchangeable': Well making changes is what the TP is about, but not my particular area. And I've stated that the past can be changed, although for some events it is much more difficult. and of course, somebody traveling back and creating huge devastation would alter things quite a bit. For us, we make small changes hopefully early enough in the stages of events that they can be changed (NOT diverted) to bring about a more positive end.

"month's worth of income on my person': the operative phrase is for whatever era I'm in. I should have also mentioned locale. And yes I do have some American money from the recent past, but I'm sure if you look around you can find some dollars that are a decade or two old as well. I have an old beat up walking liberty coin from the twenty's or thirty's in my gear, but that's nothing that you could not go out and purchase yourself. It is a waste to carry anything that will not be directly useful, not to mention potentially dangerous. Besides, the idea is blend in with the general populace.

"you do have an idea, don't you? how'd you get it?": Yes I do have an ID. It is something that we like to call a forgery. Actually one can get a decent and passable forged ID on any college campus, and htrough other channels here as well. With enough money, you can even get one that has you entered into the government's databases with an established background.

"I thought you were here to alter certain things so that humankind can grow out if it's infancy, right?": Myself personally? Fugazi that! Although I sometimes make some intentional changes, very small ones, I mainly help with the finance and misdirect. Now, arguably, intentional misdirection is, in my opinion as well, meddling and changing. I have also been suspended twice and reprimanded a few other times for being far too reckless and blatant.

How's this to set you clear so you don't have to take snippets: I am here personally to observe a few minor events. The group I work with is trying to change their past to make the future a better place (it is not my future, as I would have been long dead by the time liner time catches up). I have lots of nanos to kill while I peruse the news and look at other things, so I cam here, on this website, to engage in this lovely cross-examination to see if anybody is ready to accept facts, or just think that I'm full of snarf and will pick me apart. Either way it's a learning experience, and this information may help my bosses.

Replicate hte brain waves: I honestly have no idea, nor do I think I want one. I have a hard enough time grasping the concepts that are supposed to make the thing work. I do know that most recruited to be shooters don't make it. Some arrive at the end as a corpse, some go lunar. I don't think I've ever heard anything about brain waves mentioned however. ow I understand it, it's like moving through space, but instead of space it is time. It is just a harrowing trip. Some insist on being asleep when they go through, I don't like that idea too much myself.

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Pamela:

By the powers in control when I came from, I am a criminal. If you have ever driven above the speed limit, you are, likewise, a criminal in the eyes of the powers that set the speed limit.

How can you tell if a time traveler is a good person or a bad person? How do you tell if a person you meet on the street is a good person or a bad one?

I regret to say that outlaws, criminals, greed, and abuse of power (to the extreme) exist in tomowhen just as they do here.

However, if my actions may help to stop those evils from becoming the dominate, then I'll wear the mantle of criminal.

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Designer;

Good questions, but you assume a linear time flow, as well as a linear perception.

Space is both curved and fluid, why cannot time be so?

Although, it is remotely possible that your option #2 would happen, this would be the exception to the rule, not the rule. usually T-mass is too hard to manipulate when an event (the one desired to be changed) has too many factors, too long a period of buildup, and too many people involved in causing the event. This can get further muddled if there are others working the same event, as their efforts would be counter productive to another's.

Your other two assume that either fate has to be employed, or that the only way to reconcile the memories of the people is to pop some mystical doppleganger into the mix from whom knows where.

Perception of time is purely subjective, and one does not perceive an event until they (in their own subjective time) perceive it. If I am in the 1980's then I am in the stream, floating along like everyone else. I may be from another era, but I am still in the era (in this case the 1980's). All that happens is that I save the poor guy from being snarfed. There are no memories to be re-programmed, because the event is not past yet for everyone else, except for me.

In the end, I would merely have affected the timestream in a very small fashion, changing one poor snarf from somebody that got fragged by a vehicle into somebody that almost got fragged.

The universe adapts well enough, as all things happen at once, and I now know that there is somebody that would have died had I not saved them.

There are no memories to be reconciled, because to the rest of the people in (those in the time stream) universe, the event never did/ or will happen. Well, it's more like the universe doesn't really care, but the end result is the same, as far as perception.

The flaw I see in your first option relies on the fact that this guy has to die, and nothing will change that. Because you see that this is not truly so, the only way to easily account for it is to manufacture a double to account for both events. But in the end, there is only the one event. ther's what would have happened had I not been there, and what ultimately did happen.

The third one is close to how it actually works, but there are no memories to erase and reprogram because everyone else in the universe does not have that event stored yet. ALL of perception is merely how we've recorded things in our minds. Until moment x+1 is perceived, it has not happened from a subjective standpoint. Your third option also deals with fate as a governing force, while I support free will. It can be, and has been, argued that each and every decision we will ever make is the result of our previous experiences. Although we freely make our decisions, they are already dictated. However, the existence of free will is a purely philosophical debate.

There is no need to reconcile what might have happened with what actually did, and there is no impossibility created, because there truly are no impossibilites that we can create. If the universe can handle galaxies exploding, signs dying and being reborn, and the infinite of other, high -magnitude events going on without even a warble, how could anything on such a small and remote little planet have a greater effect?

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A description of the future?

I pretty much missed out on the world from the late 1980's to the 2300's.

Tomowhen is pretty harsh. The standard of living is very low for most, roughly the same as a rural farmer in third world countries. Most have very little, and the UIC controls most facets of industry, farming, etc.

The cities are dingy and rank, and crime is one of the few viable alternatives to a miserbale life. For most, the best they can hope for is to join the military. All professional services, such as medicine, science, and education is run by and controlled by the reich. All santioned professionals are members of the military.

The general populace owns almost nothing, and has no rights. There are no trials, merely sentencing. Speaking out against the UIC is unwise, and those that do not agree with things must either remain quiet, or be labelled as outlaw. For an infraction such as that, one wold be sent to a labor camp for no less than three years.

Most crime, drugs, and other things are neither condoned, nor condemned as long as it does not interfere with the UIC. Graft is quite common, but even the rankest trooper knows that they can pretty much go anywhere and take what they want.

It rains quite a bit, and the sky is usually smoggy. Clean water is expensive, as is organic food that is pure.

I would compare it to most living as impoverished peasants with no rights, whilst the 'lords' of the UIC live a life of comfort.

There is wonderous technology, but it is all mostly for military applications, but then, most everything is military.

There is money, called units, and those few that are lving well enjoy luxuries and playthings that are amazing.

Luckily, not everywhere is like that. There are still some remote places, that are considered too remote, or to oinsignificant to be under full control. It is from these locations that the lunars, other rebels, and ourselves operate from, although yaz is it's own pocket slightly removed.

As I understand it, time travel was realized in the mid-23rd and not much was done with it for a long time. It wasn't until a few of scientists in the military started to suspect things that the TP developed. A two or three year long literal time-capsule was maintained with some copies of historical records and later it was discovered that the copies did not match the originals.

After that it was determined that something needed to be done. A small group of working time machines, the infernals, that was deemed to be not usable due to the effects it had on the travelers had long since been abandoned and slotted for destruction, in lieu of newer devices that do not cause the mental and physical strain.

One of these machines was smuggled out and reassembled in a safe zone. From there the battles started up and down the stream. The TP does not have the resources to confront them directly, so they are attempting to prevent them in the past. Over the years, another 27 of the infernals have been reproduced by the TP, some of which no longer function or have been lost.

It is our hope that we will be able to eliminate the early factors that cause this grim future, and then be done with it.

Most of my time is spent at Yaz, because we're not supposed to show our faces. So my existence is pretty boring except for missions, which usually have a long wait.

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Dar

I am having a problem with idea of saving someone in the past dealing with memory rewriting. You save someone in the past and an associate see him alive again. He is shock since in the old past as an observer of the past was at his funeral. This observer saw a dead body in the casket. The observer determines what is in the time continuum where the past was observed present observing and the future unobserved. Since the associate already saw that truth it is complete and in his memory and is in the present now of 2007 he can't re-observed the 80's since it is the past and is over and determined for him dealing with all those observations. His now-when is in 2007 and from his vantage point 80's history with his old memories intact and can't change since he can't make any new observation of the 80's from a 2007 vantage point. The only way for everything to work is memories must be updated though cycling of event along the timeline continentally and re-observed unconsciously so that memories can be updated/deleted. But you need the unconscious observer every time to make these new memories since you are not allowed seeing it in the present. But is it possible to have an unconscious observer it sound like a contradiction in a way but it is the only way it can work.

You even said that there is contradiction in you memory in which some people are alive when you thought they were dead changing time periods didn't you or is it the other way around. Was Ritter one of them?

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Dar

In your model free will does not exist since there is only one timeline therefore only one choice having other choices or probable realities is an illusion.

Let say I wanted to write a program the choices are either C++/CLI or Delphi they then have both separate timelines. Can't I project down that timeline for both choices? But your model only states there is only one line and can only view the scenario for the one choice C++/CLI.

Your view of choices seems restrictive. The future is made though projection and choice from the present but you will say there are no choice a choice is an illusion. The only way to change the timeline is though outside influence like time travelers. Timeline can only change though the ability to have free will don't you think.

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Eric Carr;

First off, my condolences on the Death of Eric Carr. I found out, in the recent past, that the original members were back together, but I did not know about Eric Carr's death.

Now I will answer your 2-question entry in reverse order as the first question is much lengthier than the second.

"Question, was JFK killed by time travelers? I have heard this before somewhere.":

Before Pam shouts it out (love you Pam!) I was NOT the second gunman on the grassy knoll. To my knowledge, there were no time travelers involved. But again, that is only my personal knowledge. One could argue that it would have been done to avert a major war stemming from the Cuban Missile Crisis or such, but I do not have any direct knowledge of such things. I learn what I need to get my job done and have very little interest in what others might have done. However, great changes are usually spoken about in the recs and referred to, and no mention of it has ever been made.

"If some time travelers were try to stop an event like 911 attacks on the World Trade Center, how hard would that be?":

I was not here for the events that built up to the 9-11 attacks, nor is the aftermath something that I personally experienced. My educated guess is a resonding "almost impossible to totally avert or change to any notable degree". This is the T-mass that I've been talking about. As information about this is readily available, it is easy to ascertain that this event took years of planning, hundreds of people, and was caused by hundreds of events and policies that were repeated through decades, perhaps even several thousand events that took place over decades of liner time.

In so far as simply intersecting the planes and shooting them down, for us, it is an impossibility because of resources...we simply do not have them. Likewise, to prevent the event from occurring, we would have to find one or two, or so, small events that we can change to prevent the entire thing. If we just killed the actual planner and perpertrator, chances are that the idea, or something equal to it, was already instilled within the plans of too many others. This means that it would still occur, just in a different form.

Or even worse, the assassination would have a negative effect and the person that retook the throne would be even worse, with more hate due to avenging the death of their newfound martyr.

T-mass, like time, is a total abstract creation of mankind to deal with things they do not understand, but it holds up to be true when used in context.

To prevent such an event, we would have to unravel every facet of it, as far backwhen as we can trace it, and it would become almost impossible to undo.

At that juncture we'd have to look at individuals, and then chains of events, and then how one chain might affect the other. We'd have to change one event after another (and it becomes harder to change an event after it has already been changed), and then countermand those changes with others if we do not get our desired results. This leads us to not only having to find the second in infinity, but also having walls thrown up between some events that we put there ourselves.

At best, we could hope to change the people that did it, or the deed itself. But either one of those will only change the details, not the event. Some things will simply happen, no matter what you do, and changing things around on a large scale usually only makes it worse, or in the very least, harder to change.

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EricCarr;

Well, thank you for playing along! Which reminds me that I just found out that Bob Barker retired.

I honestly did not expect to be believed by anyone, part of my personal experiment. I have reasons for being here dancing in the fires of critique, but those are not important.

"Do we ever land on any planets in our solar system or outside?":

Land on? within the solar system, yes. But space travel and exploration is deemed to be of a minor importance, unless it has military applications. Ther is a short span, in your near future, where space exploration fo the local system becomes en vogue again. This should follow the discovery of a distant planetoid in the very near future that redefines what is, or is not, a planet. also, some people discover that there are certain holes in the maps of planetary movements and the only solution would be another planet, more or less in the same orbit as Terra, but always on the opposite side of Sol. (for those of you that want to cite fiction I can direct you to the Gor novels written in the late 1960's by John Norman, or the Hitchikers Guide to the Galax books).

Due to these ideas, and supporting evidence, space programs flourish for a short while, culminating with landings on barren spheres. these net no profit, other than information, and are eventually abandoned in lieu of garnishing more power and creating a police state the world over.

"In the 2300's, is the world ruled by Muslims?"

NO! Even in this era you can see that most of the countries that are generally Muslim cannot rule themselves, let alone the rest of the world. Religion plays a very samll part in the grand scheme of how things payed out. Economics, politics, and personal gathering of power plays a much more important role.

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Designer;

Your problem, is only in how you feel things must be ordered to be true. To me, this is because your facts are based upon what I understand to be fallacies.

You forget that my philosphy not only allows for free will, but also institutes the idea that all things happen in the same instant. Alog with that, the universe is uncaring and instantly adaptable, because our understanding of time is banal at best.

To put it plainly, almost everyone follows time in a liner fashion from moment A, to B, to C, etc. A travelers timeline, although being connected moments to themselves, would encompass moment A to moment F, to moment C, to moment Z to moment H...

Your misunderstanding assumes that each and every entity in the universe must first (in their subjective times) experience the death of this poor victim, and then deal with that until this victim is resurrected, some twenty years later...they having had to cope with the death and then the repercussions of the ressurection.

You, however, forget the FACT that I would have been present in the 1980's to prevent the death.

You imply that the observers travel from moment A (just prior to the would-have-been death) to moment B (the death), to moment C (the term of having the victim dead), to moment D (wherein this person is no longer dead).

Your philosophy dictates that this must be true, because it would be twenty or so years before I go back to moment A or B and prevent this, and therefore each and every other creature in the universe has this as their subjective reality until it is changed, and then must cope or have some magic veil pulled over their souls. With that precept in mind, you then counter that either the universe implodes, a doppleganer appears out of nowhere to save the universe from destruciton, or that there is no free will and I have only done what fate had meant me to do.

You are forgeting the basic fact that when everyone else, within the timestream, travels from moment A to moment B, that I am there as well...for everyone in the universe, not just myself. I am a physical part of the universe, I am not simply watching, I am acting.

For the purposes of physics, the universe, and anything else that you might care to bring up, it does not change the fact that I am there, in that moment and acting to my surroundings and influencing them as much as a person within the time stream can influence things.

At this juncture, I merely sway the outcome from what would have happened, to what I made happen. To subjective time, the universe, and observers, or anything or anyone else you might bring up, I am simply a person that saved the poor victim's life.

Now I may have known that the victim was destined to die. And then I will know that my actions changed the course of what would have become; but it does not change the fact that I was there, in concrete and not theoretical reality, and prevented a death.

For everyone in the universe, except for the traveler, their moment A leads up to moment B (which has been altered by somebody coming from moment Q) But their point of observation is moment A, to moment B, to moment C.

You are implying that I must either create a new universe, bring another copy from another universe, or create a closed temporal loop, or be a victim of fate.

Free will is a philosophical construct, and it has no effect on mathematics or events; just as mathematics have no effect on philosophy.

You assume, from your pool of precepts, that time must play out in a certain order or otherwise the universe is a fraud. As the concept of a fluid and amorpheus universe is not in your philosophy, epsecially when it pertains to time, and specifically with problems with perceiving it to be a fluid rather than a linear construct, I can only say again that the death doesn't happen and rephrase the answer as many times as you can rephrase and repose the question.

You cannot percieve an event being altered in it's own present (or past) without first having been played out through the universe, and then leaving every being to be be reprogrammed to cope with the change any more than I can relate again and again that if I am in an era, i am a part of it, and my actions have an effect on that era, even though, I have certain histories to draw upon to give me a better course of action to make the fluid of the universe congeal into what i desire it to be.

you can speak of formulae, and copncept, and perdcetions as much as you like, and I can retort counters to the same, but it does not change the fact that in moment B, i was there and prevented the death. As the universe in the moment-to-moment stream observes moment A to B, there simply is no death, and therfefore there is no set of decades of coping to suddinely have things changed. For everyone else in the stream, no matter where they are in it, moment B did NOT include the vitim's death, it merely included a brush with death.

There is no problem to be dealt with, because the facts have been changed and the event questioned did never / will never occur. There quite simply was no death. As the universe sees it(and hence everyone else but those few that might know [and care] of the difference AND be outside of the normal current of the timestream) event B is does not result in a death.

Just because something would have happened if a time traveler had not been there does not change the fact that it did NOT happen because a shooter was there.

You are quite simply hung up with the idea that all things can happen at once, we have free will, and whatever we do to the timestream does not make the universe splinter in other realities or make it disappear, that you cannot accept the idea that from moment A to moment B, is what happens, even if I come from moment Z-plus infinity and change moment B while the rest of the universe is experiencing it.

You are saking me that if moment B would normally have included the death of the victim and I move back in time from mement E to prevent it, how do the people cope with their memories of moments C, D, and E. That is easy. For the rst of the universe, their moment B did not include the death prevented. Fro the universe it is real because it was made so. there is no even B containing the death, because moment B was altered to not contain the death. There quite simply is no death to deal with, and therefore there are no 'memories' of what what could have been to be coped with.

All beings are caught up in the flow fo the timestream. Even travelers are subject to it, unless they are the ones altering the event (which gets convoluted and bizarre, but this is why the archives must be kept outside of the timestream).

However, the changing of an event merely changes the event, it does not allow the entire universe to travel along ona ruse and then suddenly have cosmic and tmeporal carpet ripped out from under them.

Now to save one's on ego and sanity, you can pop whatever terminology upon this that you want. You may call it divergence, you may call out an inifinite number of inifinite times and realities that are influenced by an infinite number of choices from an infinite number of people, that are again influenced by the infintie number of inifinite possiblities that are ordained by the previous infinites, etc... but it does not change the reality of the situation. However you decirbe it, and the more complex you choose to describe it, does not change the fact that it is.

I shall now quote one of the ultimate truisms of the universe as said to me by Nina (from the late 22nd): "Dar, You are an [email protected]@^ole! I know why you are, but it doesn't change the fact that you are one single quark."

My point is that creating a complex and meaningless set of constructs to describe what is does not change the fact that it is. Likewise, understanding the reasons why somehting is still does not change the fact that it is.

Events can be changed, and are being changed. they were being changed long before humans ever figured it out. they were being changed long before i got here. When I'm fragged and hung upon the city walls as an example, it won't change the fact that things are being changed. Making up realities that do not exist, or popping in mystical creatures to account for things we don't undertsand won't change the fact that things are being changed. Adding lingo to them and trying to decribe how things could have been chasnged, still won;t effect the fact that they are.

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Designer;

your argument against free will:

We keep having the same circular agrument. I see your point, but know know tha tit is erronous by what I know. i cannot ecplain it in terms that will convince you, so you rephrase it.

Did you make any choices today? Any at all?

were they yours?

Will you make any tomorrow?

How about three weeks ago? did you make any choices on that day?

What if your today was tomorrow, you're tomorrow was yesterday, and your yesterday was three weeks ago? are your choices still yours?

My today is whatever day it is in July of 2007. My a couple of weeks ago was in 2004. Two momths from now I should be in the 2100's.

Just because my time flow is not day x, to day x+1, to day x+2 does notmean that I cannot make my own choices.

I do what I want based upon the information I have at hand. My situation is more chaotic than most, and I have to try and think about the repercussions of my actions turning the universe into porridge (so to speak), butthhat does not mean that I do not make my own decisions.

Each and every decision you, or naybody else makes has an effect upon the future. In case you all haven;'t figured it out yet, each and every one of you is a vbasic time travelr. You are all traveling into the future ast the rate of one second per second.

The only difference between you and I is that my rate varies. i might travel at -1 Me per second, or I might travel at 1,000,000 years per scond, or whatever. Then I slow down to the rate of one second per second.

Just becaus emy tomorrow is you last decade does not nullify the fact the I think, and therfore I am!

Again you forget that the all events happen at the same time. And YES they influence each other in as much as one stellar body has a gravitational effect on another in liner time. The universe doesn't care how we perceive it, it simply cares that we know it is there.

Go back liner to when the earth was the center of the universe. It was truth then. It was measurable. It had a solid basis in philosophy and was quantatively measurable and accurately predictable. As you see things now, is this truth? It could be proven to all examinations at the time. Does that make it more or less truthful because it could be proven with all that science had to offer?

At this juncture you can either say that science was totally wrong, and the basic ideas that governed it were misguided, or you can say that it was the absolute truth, because science proved it (at least i ntheory)....then. and somehow it all changed. You can give reasons, and explain them, but it does not change the fact that what was the truth is now accepted as being and egotistical and misinformed description of what was really the truth.

Whether or not I have free will is an experiment of philosophy, and I am not able to attempt to go and change my own decisions (which would prove nothng as one could always argue that I was fated to change my pervious decisions) to test the idea.

I know in my heart that I make my own decisions, just as you make your own. How this petains to what thje universe settles on for moment X+1 I could not tell you, but I can tell you that is how I am, and how i hope you are as well.

It may be wrong, and we are merely puppets basking in the glow of a false crown, but my ego is far too large (just ask anyone, anywhen) t go against the geeks that say I do truly have free will.

I also know that lack of free will has been disrpoven by a journey into the far future from YAZ. One of the infernals was destroyed because of this.

If there were no free will, then we would not have to do anything, as it would be preordained. We'd mereley have to shoot ourselves into the far future where we would have been successful (becase no matter what we wnat to do, it would be/ will be done), or would have failed and live out our lives wihtout turmoil.

So we do have free will and our will tugs at the scheme of the uiverse as much as anything else.

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Dar,

I am a believer of many worldlines (so far) but for the sake of argument I shall ask questions about the one worldline theory.

If there is only one timeline and several of your group is going constantly in and out of different times in this timeline how do you keep all of your actions in check with each other in altering?

Do you account for several people in the future also coming back and altering the timeline as well?

Do you account for aliens from other worlds, maybe even close ones from another state of development in the planets time who are also space and time traveling?

Which would eventually equal an almost eternity of comers and goers through out time.

If this is true there would be a constant.. and I mean constant state of flux in the time line where you could never really be sure of any outcome or truth. Things would always be changing. things would always be replacing other things constantly...even now as I type.

Whoever makes the last time trip wins...which is no one.. in a circle of time.

Or would the one worldline actually be many worldlines all happening at one time(one worldline) but observed as seperate worldlines? uh. I know what I am thinking but cannot word it right. light is a wave ( several possiblities)and yet is a single particle when observed.

could this one worldline that is in a constant state of flux actually be several worldines all happening at the same time but simply collapses to one for the observer? I have to think about it more it simply is not coming out right like I am thinking of it.

What happens if one time period is visited over and over and over and over and over more than the rest? Do you cause some kind of rip? or bleed through? Is there a "breaking point" where one time period simply cannot endure another time traveler having a change on it?

For example (which is over-simplified): If at one time (say this date and time) a traveler paints a certain building yellow and another time traveler sees the building and paints the same building blue and this goes back and forth over a million times with different time travelers each choosing blue or yellow ..is there a point where the building simply looks green? ? Or are the buildings simply "observed" different?

If a war is fought and a time traveler makes one side win and another makes another side win and this goes on and on and on is there a point where one will find a lost soldier that some how got caught up in the riff? Lost and not being able to tell when and where he is wandering around a feild in an old style uniform?

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This is to TimeNot_0;

First off I apologize fo rseemingly skipping over your comments. It is not my intention to seemingly ignore you.

I find it odd that you quote a bit aout anarchy, which is incorreeect by the wa, and then mention God, whom is order. so which is it, anrachy or order?

And I like this: "leading people on like a hunk of meat is something that some people will not ever learn"

So how excatly do you propose that I learn it? did you mean that the Atrocity of leading people on , like a proverbial hunk of meat dangled in front, is something that people will never learn to resist?

If that is the case, then I harken to you the possibility that I am speaking the truth, and what you are literally preaching is, in fact, leading people on like your aforementioned hunk of meat.

So what is God's plan for me? Do you know? I am a HUGE fan of God! Imean, God is in ALL places at ALL times...that makes that particular entity (or are you still so insecure that you must give God a HIM) the gradnmaster, pubaah of time travel. We even have a Saint of time travel! But I imagine that you do not conform to the 20th ideasl of catholicism, as they accept the ideas that others might have differing views (even though they are misguided in their philosophy).

And I'll tell you what, if what the future is is God's plan, then we'll have words when I get fragged!

and I ask yo this. I fyour version of Satan rules the world and labels all that do not follow him as criminal, would that make you a criminal? I never said that I consider myself to be a crinminal, I merely stated that I am labelled as such.

I'll let you in a few secrets:

Moses was a criminal because he defied the power in control.

Jesus was both a rebel and a criminal! he defied the powers that governed, as well as the church!

Martin Luther King was a criminal. He defied the LAW that stated that he must be subjugated to a sperately partitioned part of society.

Ghandi was a criminal as well.

So if god's plan is for me to be in Hell forever, then i'll have great company....John Lennon...any rock band...Moses...Jesus...martin Luther King...televangelists...etc!

Mayhaps God made the universe. If so then God also made the rules. God also gave us the desire and intellect to affect our own histories and destinies.

So mote it be, quarker!

And yes, I understand that this is probably the most confrontational entry I've written here; but I'm sure that even EricCarr would agree that you'd condemn Stryper on the same grounds, albeit without thwe time travel.

Don't scream die the flame-death at me, unless you can back it up. if doing my small part to insure that the rest of humanity can live free will condemn me, then I'll not only accept that, I'll kick open the gate of Hell!

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To Designer on John Ritter (and others);

"You even said that there is contradiction in you memory in which some people are alive when you thought they were dead changing time periods didn't you or is it the other way around. Was Ritter one of them?":

Yes, there are differences in my subjective memory to what is. These are caused by me being either out of the time stream when things are changed, ro me just not knowing until know it.

In the case of Joh Ritter having passed ( rest his soul he made me laugh, and I hope that he did so for many others), it was merely information that is not important to the TP, but that I noted when I saw it.

If hisotry is changed whilst I am in a time stream, I have no knowledge of it, although some claim to have a feeling that something was changed. If a change ismade when I am in yaz, I only learn of the difference when i am going over whatever facts of history I may need to know to whenever I am going.

I fosmebody goes to,s ay fo recample 1980, and changes something, my experience wil be of the chnaged history and I will have never experienced anything but the latered version. But usually the facts that I am not aware of are simlpy facts that I am not aware of.

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