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John Titor and the IBM 5100


d28_2012
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From:

 

http://oldcomputers.net/ibm5100.html

 

There isn't a discrete CPU (Central Processing Unit) as in modern computers, the circuit board seen below is the "processor" - it has over 15 large chips.

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This statement above from that site lends even stronger support to my assessment that those two chips with the yellow stickers are UVPROMs. They are the non-volatile (i.e. will hold their memory after power is removed) components that the rest of the (volatile) processing ICs use to fetch BIOS instructions. I have also just IM'ed a guy I work with who also did a LOT of work reprogramming EPROMS on game machines... he has verified that this component looks exactly like a UVPROM. I will even find parts on the internet and post them here to show you...

 

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Those 4 chips with the black stickers are UVPROMs. Remove the sticker and you will see windows, like this:

 

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Here is an article with a lot of good HW design information that explains the difference between a micrprocessor and a microcontrolle (which is the basis of the IBM 5100 design that uses the UVPROMS).

 

http://www.mechanicalengineering.cc/mechanical-engineering-archives/160-Microprocessors-and-Microcontrollers-Memory-Systems.html

 

And finally, here is a pretty detailed architecture manual for the IBM 5100. If you go to section 5 you can even find HW logic schematics. Perhaps, Pro7, you can use these drawings to explain EXACTLY how you think the HW is involved with your BASIC example.

 

RMT

 

http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/5100/SY31-0405-3_5100maint_Oct79.pdf

 

 

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Titorite,

 

Instead of swearing all kinds of authority on this subject maybe you should get your hands on a 5100 first rather than proclaim you know the facts about a thing without examining a thing.

Please do not start with me, OK?

 

As for your claiming that I have not examined a thing, please note that I have been going through the IBM 5100 maintenance manual (I posted the link above) since last night. So your accusation is incorrect.

 

I am also about 95% positive that the two chips with the yellow stickers are UVPROMS. As I said, I have handled and programmed them as far back as 1980. All I need to find is a circuit ID schematic for the 5100 that identifies each chip on that board, and that will (hopefully) push my certainty to 100%. And maybe bogz can help with pics of the machine he has?

 

RMT

 

 

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Patience and perseverence always pays off.

 

I found a much clearer picture of the main CPU card. Clear enough that you can definitively make out the part numbers for the chips in question:

 

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It is clear they are NOT IBM chips, since they do not bear the IBM imprint like the other ones. It may take awhile to find the part number cross reference, but I am now even more than 95% sure that these are UVPROMs.

 

RMT

 

 

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Now THIS is funny!!!!

 

The manufacturer of those chips was a company known as Signetics. They are no longer in biz under that name, but you can read about their history here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signetics

 

And I laughed out loud when I read this part:

 

Around 1971, the Signetics Corporation introduced the 555 timer IC. It was called "The IC Time Machine". It was also the first and only commercial IC timer available at the time.

Now that's too funny! (And On-Topic!)

 

I have found a variant of these chips that one can still purchase - 2410086LC. It definitely is an EPROM (Eraseable Programmable Read Only Memory), which tells me that the only thing under those yellow stickers is a window that exposes the chip to UV light. It is a bipolar PROM, which is old technology that most manufacturers have not produced in well over 15 years.

 

RMT

 

 

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RainMan,

 

You're slowly getting there. Keep going. Keep researching it.

 

Yea I am not going to talk about this anymore. Too many conflicts. Yes its stressing me out too! Just remember to research "BL1". (Yes there are only few articles on google that has that "BL1" tag attached to it, which is intended regarding this inscription alone, not any of those other junks, but once you start reading them, you will get a clear idea)

 

As a hint... 5100 machines that do not have the BL1 inscription, are not "true" 5100 machines. This is why I am offering anyone with the "BL1" inscripted 5100 machines damm alot of money for it. You will have to compare to how many 5100 machines were made, and how many of them only have the "BL1" inscription.

 

I swear on a stack of Holy Bibles that this is true. Once you "get it" you will finally understand it. Giving you hints in the past articles no matter how screwy it sounded like.

 

 

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RainMan,

 

You're slowly getting there. Keep going. Keep researching it.

Please don't play that game with me, Pro7. You have done an outright terrible job of trying to convey exactly what you mean by this "reversable binaries" term you use. Quite honestly, I doubt whether you really can explain it in normative technical terms that people familiar with computing HW and SW all understand.

 

When are you going to start answering my questions, or admitting the points I make that call your statements into question?

 

Yea I am not going to talk about this anymore.

So you have not even fully established this capability you are talking about, nor validated its basis, and so you are just now going to stop talking about it?

 

Just remember to research "BL1". (Yes there are only few articles on google that has that "BL1" tag attached to it, which is intended regarding this inscription alone, not any of those other junks, but once you start reading them, you will get a clear idea)

Another tactic used by TTers and hoaxers here. You might notice how long I have been here... I have seen them all. Rather than telling people to "research it" and therefore essentially "read your mind", why don't you spell out EXACTLY what YOU think BL1 stands for, and why? And you could also provide direct links.

 

As a hint...

Yes, so now you are "hinting around". Perhaps the reason you can't come right out and say it is because you have not taken the time to fully suss-out this "story" you are putting forward. As Darby always points out about the hoaxers and storytellers here, VERY few of them ever really spend the time to map out their ENTIRE story. It seems you are another one of these types.

 

I swear on a stack of Holy Bibles that this is true. Once you "get it" you will finally understand it.

Yet you cannot clearly explain it, and now you won't talk about it.

 

Hmmm....seems to me I recall you promising us that you were going to "go away" and not post here anymore. If you are not ready to fully support your claims and continue to discuss them so people can understand them, perhaps that is, indeed, the best thing for you to do.

 

RMT

 

 

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did you have experience with a IBM 5100 machine before? Did you open it up?

 

apparently you didnt.

 

I did.

 

Yea its a good idea to "go away", considering with all of your peoples' egotisms around here "knowing everything about computers".

 

To the lucky one:

 

anyone who has the BL1 inscripted IBM 5100 machine... please keep it.. it is far more valuable than you think it is. If you claim that you have one, please contact me right away. [email protected]

 

 

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"Around 1971, the Signetics Corporation introduced the 555 timer IC. It was called "The IC Time Machine". It was also the first and only commercial IC timer available at the time."

 

its funny you mention that, when i was looking up all the parts to build einsteins anti-gravity machine, i came across that in wiki. funny to find out that einsteins machine has the same piece as a 5100. interesting indeed.

 

computing...

 

 

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You are correct, ruthless.

 

All of them do originally have BL1 inscription except those 5100 machines which were modified by the manufacturer. (replaced chipsets) If I remember right, there were some sort of "recall" made on those IBM 5100s. Now only a handful few still have the original BL1 inscription on those original chipsets.

 

I need to stop posting information on this forum! lol. Its really driving me nuts that I keep posting on this particular machine. Well, it is really a piece of ancient outdated technology which I am really fascinated with.

 

The question is why? In the mind of a "outdated" computer scientist, if you knew the true capability, you too would be extremely interested in these specific "chips" in the 5100 processor.

 

like what people say on this forum, I think its best for you to do research yourself, to find out for yourself... isnt it better if you see this yourself than having someone tell you?

 

 

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did you have experience with a IBM 5100 machine before? Did you open it up?

 

apparently you didnt.

 

I did.

And so, since you allegedly opened it up, are you telling me that there was no UV window under those yellow patches? Because if you are, I am telling you that you are lying either about pulling those patches off, or that there is no UV window under them. I know for a fact, due to P/N cross reference that those a UV EPROMS.

 

You wish to keep playing your game...fine by me. But your explanation along with your BASIC example still has made absolutely no connection to HW. The BASIC interpreter is all SW.

 

RMT

 

 

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"All of them do originally have BL1 inscription except those 5100 machines which were modified by the manufacturer. (replaced chipsets) If I remember right, there were some sort of "recall" made on those IBM 5100s. Now only a handful few still have the original BL1 inscription on those original chipsets."

 

the recalled ones also have a bl1, correct?

 

"The question is why? In the mind of a "outdated" computer scientist, if you knew the true capability, you too would be extremely interested in these specific "chips" in the 5100 processor."

 

talking about the 8088?

 

 

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Raintime,

 

I am not playing games with anybody.

 

When you pull the patches off you will notice there is another patch but slightly smaller under it. When I took a patch off, both patches came out together, sticked to eachother. I noticed that and took them both apart. The original patch on there indicated the imprint.

 

You are correct that there is a window, however what is darn unusual about this is the inscription patch as if it was already attached to the internal part of the chip and when I pulled it off, it bared the entire internal mechanism to be shiny, not your usual dull coloring of most proms.

 

Basic is SW.. that is correct. God.. you still cant get it?... I DONT CARE ABOUT THE SW! that BASIC WAS A ILLUSTRATION of HOW THE MACHINE "DOES IT!"... IT DOESNT MATTER IF IT WAS BASIC OR ANY OTHER SW.

 

Awww i give up! sheesh.

 

 

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