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Time Travelers From The Past


Twighlight
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I don't see why. If a 'time traveller' was, frankly, having a slow day and felt the need to spilt his guts onto an internet forum. Should he not provide adequate proof, or at least something we can all agree is a valid offering to support his/her claim?

 

So far all we have had, are merely things to sink our teeth into. And poor old Ray, i think, is probably running out of tooth-picks by now.

 

You may never get the answers you seek. Proof to one individual is not proof to another.

 

Besides, I really do think it is impossible to prove on the internet but you can still offer

 

your tests perhaps one will take it some day and give you the proof you need to be sure.

 

I honestly do not see a time traveler giving this proof out unless he is like "frequency guy"

 

Damien. Because he claimed to not be physically here he was rather safe. ;)

 

Or perhaps one will give the proof before they exit. You can never know what one will do.

 

Keep in mind though some people will never be satisfied and demand more and more proof

 

until they practically have to "visit" the person!

 

I am sure though that the real ones may be few and far between. You may have even talked to

 

some unaware.

 

****************ATTENTION TIME TRAVEL CLAIMANTS:*****************

 

If you interest me I may ask you questions.

 

This does not mean I necessarily believe what you are saying but only

 

that I am interested and curious about what you have to say.

 

I like to gather all the information first and save judgement till the end.

 

I am here to have fun, interesting and thought provoking conversation.

 

If you have a sense of humor, are highly intelligent and creative I may end up liking you!

 

However, This does not mean I will have interdimensional babies with you. LOL :)

 

 

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I don't see why. If a 'time traveller' was, frankly, having a slow day and felt the need to spilt his guts onto an internet forum. Should he not provide adequate proof, or at least something we can all agree is a valid offering to support his/her claim?

 

Well of course. It seems to me pointless to even stand up and say 'I am a time traveller' unless one is going to offer some proof of it. Anyone can make claims.

 

I could claim I am in contact with the giant galactic nematode creatures from the planet Zordox.....whose mission is to ensure that all planets reach true civilization by offering free beer to their inhabitants and the abolition of taxes..and they are coming to Earth soon. What ? You don't believe me ?? Oh ye of little faith.

 

 

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It's amusing how you generalize what a time traveler would do.

And is it just as amusing when Pamela does the exact same thing? Funny that you do not say that when she does it.

 

It seems there are a lot of people around here who seem to think they know how a time traveler would act. Yes, people are different. But how any one person would act is a red herring with regard to the possibility of time travel.

 

Time travel is bunk, at least the form that everyone wishes it would take.

 

RMT

 

 

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I could claim I am in contact with the giant galactic nematode creatures from the planet Zordox.....whose mission is to ensure that all planets reach true civilization by offering free beer to their inhabitants and the abolition of taxes..and they are coming to Earth soon. What ? You don't believe me ?? Oh ye of little faith.

 

Oh but I do believe you. You imagined it (you think). But where did that imagination come from?

 

It's hard to escape the position that most of what we call consciousness is a high level result of brain activity we are not--actually can't be conscious of. So what is really doing the thinking? We're like anchor people at a news desk reporting the latest news from our brains. Right or wrong?

 

I like to think that in the beginning all possibilities came into existence simulataneously, and rather than 'creation', evolution simply makes real the most likely "potential" pre-existing possibility.

 

So even though the giant nematodes sound a little like the sand worms in "Dune", I really like the free beer and no taxes bit ;). I choose to believe it--and isn't choice what belief is all about?

 

Read my Lips: Free Beer, No new Taxes. P.S.: I'll have a Coors, please.

 

;)

 

 

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I could claim I am in contact with the giant galactic nematode creatures from the planet Zordox.....whose mission is to ensure that all planets reach true civilization by offering free beer to their inhabitants and the abolition of taxes..and they are coming to Earth soon. What ? You don't believe me ?? Oh ye of little faith.

Actually, several of us here can claim that we have been in contact with a giant, galactic-and-time-traveling clam. Good ole Clamorian, I miss him so. :cry: He was/is/willbe a good chap, especially given that he is a clam and they tend to be pretty boring. He even "proved" to us who he said he was by offering a picture of himself, and his grandfather clam who invented his time machine...and also gave us a pictre of his time machine. So there is an example of a time travel claimant who was more than willing to offer "proof". ;)

 

But yes, it is interesting how some people are selective of who and/or what they believe (sans proof). They would rather argue with those of us who are simply asking for proof, rather than argue with the people making wild-ass claims!

 

RMT

 

 

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And is it just as amusing when Pamela does the exact same thing? Funny that you do not say that when she does it.

 

It seems there are a lot of people around here who seem to think they know how a time traveler would act. Yes, people are different. But how any one person would act is a red herring with regard to the possibility of time travel.

I was addressing the conversation in general, but I can click Reply only to one person. :)

 

Time travel is bunk, at least the form that everyone wishes it would take.

 

RMT

What does this mean?

 

 

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They would rather argue with those of us who are simply asking for proof, rather than argue with the people making wild-ass claims!

A few years back, I went into one of the 911 conspiracy forums and pointed out that the famous pics of a 'woman' standing in the hole left by the plane were not actually a woman at all but just wreckage and side panels of the WTC. I even PROVED so, by showing that in one pic, the 'leg' of the woman actually merged into one of the aluminium exterior panels that stretched to the floor below.

 

Well, I got responed to like I must be a Bush secret agent, etc etc, in on the conspiracy, and so on. So blindly are people willing to believe their conspiracies and anomalies that even when confronted with irrefutable proof that they are wrong........they cannot see the wood for the trees.

 

 

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Well, I got responed to like I must be a Bush secret agent, etc etc, in on the conspiracy, and so on.

There have been a few people like that on this forum. When our lives are so lacking in mystery and excitement, we eventually seek to fabricate it at all costs.

 

There is not one of us here that has not been guilty of this at some piont in our lives. For some though, it ruins them. I can think of one in particular.

 

Time travel is bunk, at least the form that everyone wishes it would take.

I also suspect this. And i also suspect the reality is stranger than fiction, and probably far more profound. This is why i believe only those that understand the 'proof' offered, will be able to validate a likely 'time traveller'.

 

 

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In reply to:

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Time travel is bunk, at least the form that everyone wishes it would take.

 

RMT

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

What does this mean

I have described what I mean by this in much more detail in earlier threads (some of those 5000+ replies that actually have relevant content!). :) But in summary, what I mean by this is the science we know of today does not validate the concept of a human being able to travel through time without their primary physical makeup going through a radical change. What I call the "romantic notion of time travel" is basically that purported to occur in any/all stories about time travel, such as HG Wells' classic The Time Machine and even The Time Traveler's Wife. Namely, people traveling through time with no change to their physical being.

 

You may be surprised (but Olly will not) to know that I have some fairly strong spiritual beliefs. Now, I do not parade them around as if I believed they were valid science. However, I have experienced a lot through personal experimentation that convinces me there is somthing beyond the material world (which is but one subset of a larger concept called physical phenomena). It is my belief that time travel could very well manifest, but only as part of this extra-material plane of existence. And as such, it will never manifest as "Johnny Titor jumps into his time machine, revvs it up, and pops out in 2000 to chat with his friends on TTI."

 

RMT

 

 

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You may be surprised (but Olly will not) to know that I have some fairly strong spiritual beliefs.

 

Me too......but it's largely because I find it hard to believe that the perfect laws of maths and symmetry could create such a god-dammned awful universe. Something about the universe as it is, just doesn't make sense....as it's easy to forget that we are not seperate but an intergral part of it, created by it. It somehow seems absurd to suppose that there is no rhyme or reason or purpose to this.

 

 

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I don't think the universe is awful when compared to the perfect laws of math and symmetry.

 

If we take a look at the universe macroscopically, then it appears to be chaotic.

 

But that's just because every form of math we know and yet don't know work together.

 

If we look at isolated things in the universe then we can find every perfect math in it.

 

It's like taking a look at something very chaotic, but when you take a look at it under the microscope, then you can see more and more order.

 

And even if there is no order, then there's still some underlying form of math behind it, that makes it work.

 

But we might just not understand it yet, like all the other myths we didn't understand many centuries ago.

 

I personally don't think that the universe has to make sense in human terms.

 

We, as humans, tend to give everything some sort of purpose or sense, to bear it.

 

If something has no sense or purpose, we are confused because we want to know, WHY it is existing then.

 

But just because it exists, doesn't mean it has to have a purpose.

 

Maybe the whole universe, along with us and our planet has absolutely no purpose whatsoever.

 

Maybe it's just there, because. That's something that is hard to accept because we want to know the reason for something's existance.

 

That's part of our curiosity.

 

Having a feeling there's more is alright and maybe there is, I can't tell for sure.

 

But we also have to brace ourselves for the very high possibility that there's nothing more, no higher purpose, no meaning.

 

Can the universe even exist if there's really no meaning? I say yes, why not.

 

If there's a comet flying around in the universe which we'll never see and which will never hit anything except a star, which will not even "notice" this (meaning it'll have no significant outcome) then it seems to have had no purpose.

 

But still if flew around the universe and hit the star, just because it was possible, and in this instance it did.

 

Granted, a universe without a purpose or reason etc., seems like a very boring place.

 

What if it is? That's a little downer I guess, but then again there's still "magic" and "wonder" in the universe as it is.

 

Just the sight of all the different kinds of things one can see is astonishing.

 

Most of it might be deadly to a human being, but I think that's just because our parameters for life are so small/little compared to the whole range of possible parameters in the whole of the universe.

 

And thus, most of the stuff out there can kill us easily.

 

Ok, I'm beginning to brabble, the only thing I want to point out is:

 

IMO the universe doesn't need a purpose to be. This might make it hard to accept, but if it's the truth, we have to live with it.

 

But even if there is no purpose, there's still wonder out there, because what we perceive as wonder is totally up to our imagination.

 

Side note:

 

And both imagination and feelings are IMO central to why we tend to think there has to be purpose.

 

I feel that way everytime I look at the vast amount of stars in the sky, but then again I know it is just a feeling, produced by my body.

 

The stars up there (or their light I can see) couldn't care less about all the stars around them, so it's only that: A bunch of stars.

 

But having my mind react to that sight in such an emotional way, fuels my curiosity and wants to give it meaning and purpose.

 

Maybe that's another trick of life to sustain itself. IMO curiosity is one of the main motors for human advancement / advancement of life.

 

 

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I feel that way everytime I look at the vast amount of stars in the sky, but then again I know it is just a feeling, produced by my body.

But there's a tendency to seperate ourselves from 'the universe' and forget that everything we experience and think is a part of it. So even to just think 'meaning' is to give it existence within the universe.

 

I have a suspicion that the wave/particle duality extends to the universe as a whole. That it is neither meaningless or meaningfull...but somehow both.

 

In the west we tend to seperate our gods and demons into 'good' and 'bad' distinct entities. But I think the eastern religions have it right.....we are under the grip of the mad god Kali ( whose literal interpretation of name comes from 'kala'.....meaning 'time' ).

 

She is depicted creating with one hand and destroying with the other. And even though Kali is not the supreme god she is often depicted standing on the seemingly 'dead' body of her husband, the supreme god Shiva ( the 'lord of the dance' )..who is depicted as somehow indifferent ( though it is an illusory indifference and Shiva is really deep in thought ). Add to that the fact that in the Vedic literature they are not really seperate entities but two forms of the same thing.........and somehow I think eastern thinkers got a 'theory of everything' way before string theory.

 

To me it's clear that long before Einstein, the eastern thinkers understood that energy and time ( Kali ) and matter ( the inert Shiva ) are just two different forms of the same thing. The seeming 'indifference' of the supreme god is a dualistic necessity as Shiva submits to his partner.

 

 

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Very cool, Twighlight:

 

I have a suspicion that the wave/particle duality extends to the universe as a whole. That it is neither meaningless or meaningfull...but somehow both.

Indeed. That which is meaningful and useful flows from a continuous dance of extremes. The extremes are not "real" nor meaningful in and of themselves (false prophets?). Rather, it is the creation between them that has purpose (i.e. function).

 

She is depicted creating with one hand and destroying with the other. And even though Kali is not the supreme god she is often depicted standing on the seemingly 'dead' body of her husband, the supreme god Shiva ( the 'lord of the dance' )..who is depicted as somehow indifferent ( though it is an illusory indifference and Shiva is really deep in thought ). Add to that the fact that in the Vedic literature they are not really seperate entities but two forms of the same thing.........and somehow I think eastern thinkers got a 'theory of everything' way before string theory.

Me too. And I have convinced myself that the Hermetic Traditions borrowed and adapted from the Vedics, simply making their stories fit their social and cultural points of view. I have studied the Hermetic Traditions and arrived at various parallels between what they teach and actual science.

 

Kali = MOTION. It is motion that creates and destroys by operating on matter.

 

Shiva = MATTER. It is matter that provides form from which a purpose can be served by placing it into motion.

 

And everything in our physical universe is described by MATTER in MOTION, yes? In fact, when you look at the basic formulations of energy (1/2*m*v^2 and m*g*h) you see a mixture of MATTER and MOTION.

 

To me it's clear that long before Einstein, the eastern thinkers understood that energy and time ( Kali ) and matter ( the inert Shiva ) are just two different forms of the same thing. The seeming 'indifference' of the supreme god is a dualistic necessity as Shiva submits to his partner.

Again, agreed. And the "secrets" of the various Hermetic Traditions (freemasonry, etc.) are, in fact, these basic truths. I have even aligned them with systems theory with respect to how we describe, define, and develop any system to serve a purpose. There are three domains within which you can describe a system:

 

Operational Domain - How I use a system (for what purposes/objectives). Metrics are Time & Frequency that define operational sequences and durations.

 

Functional Domain - What a system does (action verbs). Metrics are all forms of Motion (velocity, acceleration, et. al).

 

Physical Domain - What a system is (nouns). Metrics are all forms of Matter.

 

It is through the interplay of a functional and physical design instantiation that some operational objective is pursued and achieved. From form and function stems purpose.

 

RMT

 

 

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The Time Traveler's Wife

The Time Machine ok but in the TTW did they ever explain what "part" of him was traveling in time? I think the tv show Quantum Leap and TTW are in a special class. They're act you like can send whatever controls the mind/soul back in time and that it's just a natural easy thing for the universe to handle, far easier than sending back a bunch of matter.

 

Reality is like a WORM drive. Write once, read _many_

 

/wave

 

 

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