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Re: The music and the net \"John Titor\" mentioned

 

You seem to be a serious Christian and know a lot of scripture. Do you know of any that looks like time travel was involved, or the opposite, that God would speak against traversing time?

Though not necessarily contained in every bible, there is 2 Esdras 4:1-5

 

Then the angel that had been sent to me, whose name was Uriel, answered

 

2 and said to me, 'Your understanding has utterly failed regarding this world, and do you think you can comprehend the way of the Most High?'

 

3 Then I said, 'Yes, my lord.' And he replied to me, 'I have been sent to show you three ways, and to put before you three problems.

 

4 If you can solve one of them for me, then I will show you the way you desire to see, and will teach you why the heart is evil.'

 

5 I said, 'Speak, my lord.'

 

And he said to me, 'Go, weigh for me the weight of fire, or measure for me a blast of wind, or call back for me the day that is past.'

The first two problems are not insurmountable, so the third is probably not either. :)

 

 

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Re: The music and the net \"John Titor\" mentioned

 

"Before Abraham was, I AM". This shows that God is Omnipresent. To Him, Time nor space exists contiguously as it does for us. He is then, as well as now, as well as when. This suggests that any attempt (passively or actively) in entering the (timestream?) would not bring us to past or future, but to the eternal NOW.

 

"When the gospel of the kingdom is preached to the whole world, then shall the end come." The scriptures have much to say about the end of time. The first few words "In the beginning" actually mean the beginning of time/space/matter--in the beginning (time), God created the earth (matter) and the heavens (space). It speaks of the speeding up of time before it reaches its demise (as recently suggested by the faster expansion of the universe with its resultant "loss of time" hypothesis which theorizes that time is seeping away from the universe.

 

Jesus, Himself, referred to time often. He said over and over again that the time was NOW. He wasn't just speaking in local terms. He was speaking in universal, heavenly terms. More importantly, He spoke of its nature (and our relation to it) as ATTAINABLE. The precise blueprint for it is contained within TORAH.

 

 

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Re: The music and the net \"John Titor\" mentioned

 

he is perfectly in his right to talk about God related issues and how it relates to time travel.

 

If you don't like the topic simply don't participate in this thread but do not disrupt this thread

 

we are having a conversation here. Please respect others opinions on the forum.

 

 

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Re: The music and the net \"John Titor\" mentioned

 

is that a trick question?!

No, it is not a trick question. But it is one I have often wondered about. If I had an opportunity to time travel it is one of the items I would wish to see if possible.

 

But back then only priests could enter and his sins had to be forgiven through sacrifices and he had to perform certain rituals and only go in so many times a year....or he would die if he entered. But a christian has been forgiven through the shed blood of Christ and when Christ died the veil of the temple was torn in two signifying that people can come near to God now through Christ.

 

So what I wondered about is would a christian be able to time travel back in time and enter the holy place because he was forgiven as the priest was through Christ and not sacrifices and since God has all of time before him would the christian be allowed to enter and not die or would the old testament laws still be in place with him as well and he would die?

 

It is something I have wondered about but do not know the answer on and wished to get another christians opinion of it because I dont think there are very many christians who even talk about time travel. :)

 

 

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Re: The music and the net \"John Titor\" mentioned

 

Hi aerohead,

 

Then the angel that had been sent to me, whose name was Uriel, answered

 

2 and said to me, 'Your understanding has utterly failed regarding this world, and do you think you can comprehend the way of the Most High?'

 

3 Then I said, 'Yes, my lord.' And he replied to me, 'I have been sent to show you three ways, and to put before you three problems.

 

4 If you can solve one of them for me, then I will show you the way you desire to see, and will teach you why the heart is evil.'

 

5 I said, 'Speak, my lord.'

 

And he said to me, 'Go, weigh for me the weight of fire, or measure for me a blast of wind, or call back for me the day that is past.'

 

The first 2 problem can be measured by the weight of particles/atoms and estimate the amount of substance measured.

 

The third can be done by time travel.

 

The lord had showed me the only way to eternity and had granted me eternal life through the death and ressuraction of his Son Jesus Christ, in his grace and mercy my sin is forgiven.

 

The heart is evil because we humans, Adam's race had disobeyed God and had eaten the fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil in God's garden Eden. As we know what is good, we also know what is evil and hence tempt by evil. Those who is weak in faith and without God, they cannot self control hence hearts of men are evil.

 

 

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Re: The music and the net \"John Titor\" mentioned

 

"When the gospel of the kingdom is preached to the whole world, then shall the end come." The scriptures have much to say about the end of time. The first few words "In the beginning" actually mean the beginning of time/space/matter--in the beginning (time), God created the earth (matter) and the heavens (space). It speaks of the speeding up of time before it reaches its demise (as recently suggested by the faster expansion of the universe with its resultant "loss of time" hypothesis which theorizes that time is seeping away from the universe.

 

Jesus, Himself, referred to time often. He said over and over again that the time was NOW. He wasn't just speaking in local terms. He was speaking in universal, heavenly terms. More importantly, He spoke of its nature (and our relation to it) as ATTAINABLE. The precise blueprint for it is contained within TORAH.

Thank you very much for your teaching, brother Eliakim. Yes the kingdom of God shall be declared and preached to all nations so that many will be saved in the end. The time is NOW.

 

 

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Re: The music and the net \"John Titor\" mentioned

 

Well maybe I can try to answer. :) Forgive me if my drunken state banishes logic.

 

If I remember correctly, the urim and thummim were required (embedded in a breastplate) to enter the holy of holies. Along with all of the ritual and other things.

 

Based on the time requirements (only being allowed to enter a certain number of times per year) and social restriction, I think it was based on radiation. The ark could have contained something radioactive, and the breastplate and other ceremonial things could have acted as a radiation shield to protect vital organs. Also remember that "God" appeared on Mount Sanai as a cloud of thunder. That means a lot of electrons, which could be a hugely active beta emitter. And the burning bush? A desert would be a perfect place to mask the heat of a nuclear machine.

 

Whatever. I'm drunk. :)

 

 

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Re: The music and the net \"John Titor\" mentioned

 

Hi Pamela,

 

No we shall not enter the holy and holies even we are Christians. The Lord never give permission to anyone to see the Ark even to these days after the curtain of holy of holies was torn into 2 when Christ breathed his last on the cross. Don't even think of going near it. The angels are guarding it.

 

When the curtain was torned it symbolised the relationship of mankind and God was repaired by the sacrificial death of Christ, but he still didn't give permissions for us to view it.

 

Even the high priests in the Old Testament time need to carry a bell on their waist with a rope tired on their body, in case they die in the Holy of Holies, someone outside can be notified with the bell sound and drag the high priest's body out.

 

If anyone travel back to Old Teastment time and they will die as well because Christ didn't pay the penalty of sin yet.

 

No need to see it as you will see Christ in person soon when the time come. It is like you don't need to access the laptop for skype if you can see someone in person.

 

I heard that it was hidden long time ago so that the coming anti-christ can't obtain it. Please don't ask much about it anymore. It is safer to be hidden. What is on earth will not last, it is just a shadow of the real one in heaven. And Jesus is the high priest forever in heaven as written in the book of Hebrew in New Testament. He has conquered death and risen 3 days later. Put your faith in him and you will see him in person one day. In the end seeing Christ is better than seeing the ark.

 

 

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Re: The music and the net \"John Titor\" mentioned

 

Eliakim,

 

"When the gospel of the kingdom is preached to the whole world, then shall the end come."

This doesn't actually refer to the end of the earth or time, but to the end of this earth age. (The second of three) This is at the 7th trump when Christ returns and the Millenium begins. (Book of Peter)

 

Pamela,

 

I don't know about going back and entering the Holy of Holy's, so I would err on the safe side I think because as a time traveler you should "do as the Romans do". You might not die, but God is the final judge so I might want some divine advice before I tried it! Jesus suggested not to offend when traveling to nations to preach the gospel. Call no man common because of his food or customs. I think a time traveler should abide by laws of the time they travel to just to be on the safe side.

 

Hearing Christ speak would be enough for me.

 

PaintHorse

 

 

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Re: The music and the net \"John Titor\" mentioned

 

That book is part of the Apocrypha, which I don't believe are part of true Christianity. The first clue is that they are 'secret' and that goes against all other Christian teaching which is about God's people having access to Him and knowing Him. I don't doubt the people who wrote these books considered themselves followers of Christ, they just really twisted things. I will admit I haven't read them yet, and I'm going on others descriptions and assesments in what I have read about them. I would love for this verse to be genuinely biblical because it is just what I am looking for, but I'm not going to buy into it that easy. I may have to read the Apocrypha now though.

 

For now I am sticking with what I consider to be the Divinely inspired books contained in the King James translation, and that is mostly because there are concordances that have ciphered out all the mis-translations, inconsistencies, and explain word meanings that were different in the time the book was written compared to today. (Like a camel going through the eye of a needle. They actually did that in Christ's time.)

 

 

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Re: The music and the net \"John Titor\" mentioned

 

For now I am sticking with what I consider to be the Divinely inspired books contained in the King James translation, and that is mostly because there are concordances that have ciphered out all the mis-translations, inconsistencies, and explain word meanings that were different in the time the book was written compared to today.

Good that you have taken the time to study and review the material as presented in the King James Bible. I will say that the true understanding doesn't necessarily come from the actual words as printed in the text, but comes when a certain relationship has developed between the "thirsty" and the Lord.

 

Remember, even the Apostles themselves didn't understand what Jesus was saying, until Jesus felt that they had reached a point that He provided them with an understanding.

 

"""

 

"Therefore speak I to them in parables, because they seeing SEE NOT: and hearing they HEAR NOT, NEITHER DO THEY UNDERSTAND" (Matt. 13:13).

 

"And when He was alone, they that were about Him with the twelve asked of Him the parable… And he said unto them, Know you NOT this parable? And how then will ye know all parables?" (Mark 4:10 & 13).

 

"Then He took unto Him the twelve, and said unto them. Behold we go up to Jerusalem, and ALL THINGS that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished… and THEY UNDERSTOOD NONE of these things: and this saying was HID from them, NEITHER KNEW they the things which were spoken" (Luke 18:31-34).

 

And He said unto them, These are the words which I spoke unto you while I was yet with you that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses in the prophets, and in the Psalms, concerning Me, Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures [ALL of the Scriptures]" (Luke 24:44-45).

 

"""

 

Should make one pause before they declare exactly what it is they believe they understand, and why it would be felt that IF the Apostles themselves didnt understand, why would it be made any easier for anyone today ?

 

 

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Re: The music and the net \"John Titor\" mentioned

 

That book is part of the Apocrypha, which I don't believe are part of true Christianity. The first clue is that they are 'secret' and that goes against all other Christian teaching which is about God's people having access to Him and knowing Him.

There are plenty of "secrets" in Christianity, although the Christian faiths tend to prefer to call them "mysteries" as if to imply that the elders of the Church do not know any more than the "flock" does. But that is just not true. In fact, one can use the words of Christ himself to show that there are, indeed, "secrets" that even God keeps from His flock:

 

Matthew 24:36, NIV. "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

 

This is just one example of a "secret" in Christianity. There are more. In the interest of full disclosure: I grew up a Catholic through my late teen years, went to Catholic schools, and so I am quite well-versed in Christian theology.

 

I don't doubt the people who wrote these books considered themselves followers of Christ, they just really twisted things. I will admit I haven't read them yet, and I'm going on others descriptions and assesments in what I have read about them.

That says a lot. I am afraid it is not fair (to the people who wrote the apocrypha) to say they "twisted things" without you reading them yourself and appealing directly to God to guide you as to whether they are "real". I found that, when reading apocrypha within the context of other spiritual traditions, it brings to light just how much the development of the Church was controlled by mankind, and not necessarily through "divine inspiration". Rome did not necessarily adopt Christianity for wholly spiritually-inspired reasons. Rome was first and foremost about controlling and pacifying her subjugate nations.

 

and that is mostly because there are concordances that have ciphered out all the mis-translations, inconsistencies, and explain word meanings that were different in the time the book was written compared to today.

There are a great many concordances, written by fallible humans, that attempt to do nothing more than convince the masses thus making them easier to control. I think you might have a hard time aruging the fact that in the middle ages the Church was the de facto political controller of lives throughout Europe. I have found a great many reasons not to trust the political organization that is the church of Rome. With things like "Church Law" they wish to supplant Christ as the authority with their own (additional) rules. There is absolutely NO reason why women should not be allowed to be priests. In fact, when you study other spiritual traditions, you come to find that a "real" ceremony worshipping God's creations cannot be complete without BOTH the male and female potencies. They are BOTH part of the "mystery" of creation. One cannot create without the other.

 

RMT

 

 

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Re: The music and the net \"John Titor\" mentioned

 

To say that the Governmit had anything to do with it is like saying that since they don't believe anyone, we surely really only believe half of what they say.

 

I am sure some people in the Governmit (Congress) perhaps underneath their breath whether aware of it or not is probably having thoughts similiar to:

 

"I find your lack of faith - disturbing!"

 

If anything, you should first not assume and ask them if they are:

 

"Time-Travellers?"

 

After all the rhetoric:

 

I leave, once again!

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

The Universe is Not Enough!

 

Humans are on this Planet and in this Universe.

 

http://dimensionalcitizen.tripod.com/index.html

 

:)

 

 

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Re: The music and the net \"John Titor\" mentioned

 

There is absolutely NO reason why women should not be allowed to be priests.

Hi RainmanTime,

 

1 Corinthians 14:34

 

"women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. "

 

Priests speak sermons in the church. Not suitable for women under that verse in the bible.

 

However, women can be appointed as Deans who can teach other younger women and be leaders of youth group and sunday school teachers.

 

 

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Re: The music and the net \"John Titor\" mentioned

 

1 Corinthians 14:34

 

"women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. "

 

Priests speak sermons in the church. Not suitable for women under that verse in the bible.

 

However, women can be appointed as Deans who can teach other younger women and be leaders of youth group and sunday school teachers.

That is not the word of God. Those are the words of a very fallible human, influenced by the sexism and patriarchial politics of his time. In other words, the Bible is simply wrong in that particular statement. I am sorry if this offends you, and if you really do think this is the word of God then all I can do is pray for you. The God I know, and have communicated with, is not sexist. He created value in both sexes, and anyone who values all the knowledge they received from both their mother and father knows this.

 

RMT

 

 

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Re: The music and the net \"John Titor\" mentioned

 

Hi RainmanTime,

 

No no I don't mean God is sexist or anything like that, it is just the "role" of men and women are different on earth when God created them.

 

Like the way that Moses who encountered God said in Deuteronomy:

 

"22:5 A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this. "

 

Like the way women and men are "different". The jobs or roles for them are also different.

 

What is written in 1 Corinthians 14:34 is word of God. To show the authenticity let me explain the full context of the passage. It was about the orderly worship in the church.

 

(1) the Law St. Paul mentioned is the Law of Moses who encountered God in person.

 

The Law is from God = God said it.

 

(2) the entire chapter is about Prophecy. Prophecy is a spiritual gift from God. A true prophet don't speak prophecy with their own minds but spoke the word of God. And in the same way the bible is God breathed, the writers doesn't write their own mind but only as instruments to write what is from the breath of God ("breath of God" = "Spirit" in Hebrew)

 

Here is the whole passage:

 

1 Corinthians 14

 

As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

 

36Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.

 

I repeat this once more time and hope you understand my agenda. God is not sexist, nor the context is sexist, it is from God, not men, it said that because God created men and women differently and gave them different roles.

 

 

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Re: The music and the net \"John Titor\" mentioned

 

it is just the "role" of men and women are different on earth when God created them.

I disagree. There is only evidence for biological roles. Nothing else. There is certainly no evidence at all that God intends men and women to keep separate social roles.

 

Like the way that Moses who encountered God said in Deuteronomy:

 

"22:5 A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this. "

Fact #1 - ALL clothing was created by man. God created us in a naturally unclothed state. So claiming that God wishes men and women to dress a certain way is heresay since God did not create us with clothes.

 

Fact #2 - Genesis 3:7-11 states: "7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

 

 

 

8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"

 

 

 

10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."

 

 

 

11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?" "

 

Clearly one part of the Bible contradicts the other, yet it is self-evident that humans were not created with clothes. Therefore, what you claim cannot be true.

 

Like the way women and men are "different". The jobs or roles for them are also different.

This is a non-sequitor. It does not follow that just because we are biologically different that men and women must have different social roles. That is ancient thinking.

 

What is written in 1 Corinthians 14:34 is word of God.

I disagree.

 

To show the authenticity let me explain the full context of the passage. It was about the orderly worship in the church.

Are you claiming to be the interpreter of words alleged to be God's? That is bordering on sacrilege: John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

 

Here is the whole passage:

The whole passage only further proves that the Church, created by man and whose rules were established by man, was patriarchal and sexist. I know you may believe differently and that is your right. But the Bible is anything but clear on this:

 

http://www.directionjournal.org/article/?680

 

"Those who believe the Bible restricts the public ministry of women appeal to texts such as 1 Timothy 2:11-12,14 and 1 Corinthians 14:34; those who favor the unrestricted ministry of women counter with Galatians 3:28, Romans 16:1-3,6,12, Philippians 4:2-3 and 1 Corinthians 11:5. Since there is so little consensus on the Pauline writings, perhaps we may turn to the Gospels for guidance."

 

Read the gospel of John, especially the place of Mary Magdalene as the first one to proclaim the risen Jesus.

 

RMT

 

 

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