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The Other John


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....And he was here in March of 2009 and didn't even think To stop by and say "hi?". Some friend.

Hello everybody

 

Recall 15 here:

 

I Just "add" the Maria's Letters to this new Mix in this Thread:

 

#1

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbg8aRaawzM&feature=related

 

#2

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdpfXYgKVjA&NR=1

 

Also the "The B-52's songs":

 

The following 25 pages are in this category, out of 25 total.

 

Link

 

how about the Weather? i remember the poem of the Winter but what if: 2000=2010 ICE

 

 

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No, recall that is not the right B52 song. I have kept that to myself aswell.

 

Anyway I tried to post a link to this thread on you tube. I even went to the library but I do not see it coming up so I am not sure if it will eventually come up or not. But I will get a link there one way or another.

 

Anyway most of the following will be for John (real or not) to see.

 

 

Anyway, I am positive that Kay has links to John or whoever John was so I am sure that he will eventually see this. After all they are going to be looking at comments on their video.

 

I will say this has been a wild ride. Believing him one minute and thinking he was some jerk who tricked me the next. Not being given the departure video that I waited years to recieve and then finding out Larry got to see it.. I actually felt.. (I am not even sure what the word is) But I was angry...hurt..almost felt betrayed. All this time I have kept secrets even though I felt he may be some jerk that was lieing to me and using me...which he could very well be. Kay and John need to keep in mind that I have no way to verify if any of this was real. I have two sets of feelings for John. One if he was real...one if he was some jerk.

 

Feeling more and more jaded as I see links for Kay on facebook and twitter but no communication to me what -so- ever. Hearing interviews of her on Coast to Coast. Sending ten thousand emails to Larry Haber just hoping to get some kind of answer...even a small one. Will she respond this time?

 

So much for staying safe and hidden. What happened to my friend John? Finding out he was here in 2009 and not even getting a visit from him? Maybe we dont have the same understanding for what "friend" is.

 

I have been a friend to you even when I thought you were a jerk. But I feel like you have not really been a friend to me. There is no reason for "your family" to not communicate with me about you when they are strung out all over the internet.

 

And if you are a fraud and you kept me on this string all these years then you need to be a man and step forward. Do you have no conscious at all? I deserve to atleast know. What kind of person are you?? I helped you a lot and never asked anything from you. How can you treat me this way?

 

seriously?? Do you realize I have kept your email secret for 10 years? Not even my best friend knows it. I have kept all these things in my heart all these years....for what? To find out there were two Johns?? Dont you think that was something you should have told me...like in the beginning?

 

You owe me an answer John. You really do. I don't care if you were a real time traveler or a joker playing around on the internet you need to be a man and let me know the truth....once and for all.

 

 

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Even if john was fake he would remember the song and could post it.

Pamela,

 

This assumes that when we had comminication with JT/TTO s/he knew that the meme would catch on and that the emails between the two of you would be something to remember.

 

S/he never mentioned that the meme would die in 2001-2002 after the "departure" and that we (you and I) would have to pump the subject on Anomalies during the dead-as-yesterday's-newspaper days to keep it alive.

 

And that's the reality. Had you and I not kept the subject alive by constantly posting and arguing about it back in late 2001 onward the John Titor Saga would have been a non-issue. On this site is was truly dead. This site itself was dead. The only people posting here were sending personal nonsense messages between themselves. I even complained on Anomalies, back in 2002, that the subject of John Titor might be considered for a funeral ceremony.

 

The subject of John Titor only became known widespread around the Net when TJ Fan did the Internet Blitz from Larry Haber's office (the John Titor Foundation office) in August of 2003.

 

The real bottom line is, "So what?" Nothing that he "predicted" has come true. He was just an interesting writer who managed to engage the fantasy world of some people...and make money for some people through film, books, T-shirts, etc. Beyond that his story is not that much different than any other TT Saga that has come along since (though most of the sagas that have come along since play on the original John Titor Saga).

 

 

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I have to disagree with you Darby. This was something he would NOT forget. He reminded me several times of it. Now if there was more than one person doing it as you suspected then yeah the other one may not know. However....I myself do not know what the B52 song at the end of the book was

 

suppose to mean. I thought maybe the person was guessing at the secret song. John never mentioned

 

this song to me so why he would use it in the book and here...is weird. Also Larry told me he did not send me the book so I am unsure where the book actually came from.

 

I noticed eyesview said their book came from omaha. They didn't mention their book having a message in it like mine did either.

 

 

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Feeling more and more jaded as I see links for Kay on facebook and twitter but no communication to me what -so- ever.

Pamela,

 

This has always been a problem. You've taken the position that you are a "special" person in the John Titor Saga and that whatever drives the story forward has to revolve around you.

 

The evidence that we have been able to gather says that there is no "Mother Kay" thus there is no one from whom you could receive communications. So stop worrying about it. The entire ploy about keeping the identity of Little John Titor, his father and mother's names anonymous is silly...beyond silly. Raul Burriel knows who the "TimeTravel_0" account belongs to and who he was before he became "TTO". Art Bell and Keith Rowland know who the account for "John Titor" belongs to. They even know his snailmail address and phone number. That much we know from the two faxes sent to Art Bell.

 

"Mother Kay" is just one more fictional character in this meme. You'll never know the real "truth" because you already know the actual truth. It's a prime example of an online sci-fi story. Pamela, we even know that the same people who produced "Momma Kay's" book, "The Book", also produced the additional and previously unreleased pages from "The Manual" that were included in the "online purchase only" version of The Book It was whomever posed as "Momma Kay" Titor...a group of peole, i.e. Group Titor. "Buzzmaker" already told us that he watched them produce the additional pages in the shop. And we know that Buzzmaker was intimately involved with the John Titor Foundation because he used that same email address as JT Fan. He even admitted that much.

 

 

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Darby is wrong in his last assumption!

 

Pamela is so Special!!!

 

No, recall that is not the right B52 song. I have kept that to myself aswell.

No problem with that :)

 

I have two sets of feelings for John. One if he was real...one if he was some jerk.

Well, so far if a Bizzarre accident happend and John was divided in two separted entities, you may got indeed 4 sets of fellings regarding John ... oh my!

 

To find out there were two Johns?? Dont you think that was something you should have told me...like in the beginning?

What if didn´t the original John know about the other John ?

Just Wondering:

 

i want to know if is possible than the other girl wrote about her part on this "Drama" and post these video or stills of Nebraska...

 

:confused:

 

 

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John Titor Letter 177 tempus edax rerum

 

John Titor Letter 177 tempus edax rerum

 

Is this the video ?

This is the transcrit of the video for those that can´t display flash videos on their mobile devices:

 

Greetings

 

I´m the man you know as John Titor

 

correction

 

I´m one of the men

 

now as John Titor.

 

in 1999,

 

I was the second to arrive

 

on the same worldline

 

as the other man

 

you know as John

 

It was I who wrote

 

the post in November and January

 

When I return to 2001

 

I will write for the final month of March

 

my mother will release

 

this message in november of 2009

 

The other John write the messages

 

of December and February

 

He, too will write his final posts

 

in march of 2001

 

As I write this now

 

the date is march 22 2009

 

and the divergente is 1.941

 

This is not the first time I

 

been in your future

 

I was here before writing

 

the first post in 2001

 

I tried to warn you

 

I tried to wake you

 

as time passes.

 

I fear you will witness

 

the transition for your apathy

 

and dependence to yours childrens

 

fall in bondage.

 

I fell sorry for you

 

You will not know the peace and freedom

 

I will have when will return home.

 

In spite of my efforts

 

the war that gave the gift

 

to me may come to you much later.

 

To probe to you who I´m

 

a friend will corraborate the

 

significance of the group B-52

 

I´m sorry about the strife

 

and dificulty you have had

 

these past years

 

it was requiered.

 

As I said, after 1975

 

when I arrived in 1999

 

there was already another

 

John there.

 

The two of us devised

 

a plan to return to

 

separate worldlines.

 

The plan requiered that

 

each of Us travel to different

 

time periods between 1998 and 2009

 

and take measurements with

 

our displasement machine.

 

We had to find a way to comunicate

 

these measurements in a way that

 

would last.

 

and could be easily found latter.

 

Our First attempt was with

 

the FAX to Art Bell.

 

I traveled first to 1998 first, and

 

left the first fax with Art.

 

The other John traveled there

 

latter and was able to find my FAX.

 

He then left the second FAX.

 

As the plan is now progressing

 

we were able to use the Internet.

 

The post we made and will

 

make, are a foundation we will

 

need to get home.

 

In each month we will post

 

the measurement we had made

 

in various time periods

 

on differents worldlines.

 

Every time someone post

 

after John Titor after 2001,

 

they will become more permanent

 

and easier for me or another John to find.

 

If the other John or even another John

 

ever arrives in your future

 

trying to get home he will now see

 

the numbers he need in the posts.

 

If he were to hear this message,

 

he will know what to do.

 

The final measurements are on

 

the website my mother´s attorney

 

has overseen.

 

this is the reason we made the posts.

 

with your help they will last.

 

They are a sign post to others Johns

 

who are losts and need our work to

 

return home.

 

For this i must thank all of you.

 

one seven seven.

 

Tempus Edax Rerum.

 

Time will devour all things.

 

Kay Titor requested this letter from John Titor be posted in November of 2009. The website is located at http://www.johntitorfoundation.com... - Good luck John.

Recall 15 here:

 

John, you have to know that your Singularity Energy Power System has a severe fault= It damage the living tissue. Get the new revision of the Visitors -115 element- based at A19G3Z @ 20031111 1930UTC.

 

Greetings to the Council!!!

 

 

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And that's the reality. Had you and I not kept the subject alive by constantly posting and arguing about it back in late 2001 onward the John Titor Saga would have been a non-issue.

 

A point I have myself made time and again. To the extent that any newcomer to the whole saga could seriously be forgiven for wondering whether Pamela is actually 'innocent victim'....or just another member of 'Group Titor'

 

I myself cannot help but feel that Pamela willingly jumped on the Titor bandwaggon, at the very least. So now, 10 years later, we have a belated plea that maybe she has been duped....that somehow Titor 'owes' her something. Hmm...I guess 10 years back pay for being someone's #1 media publicist.

 

Pamela,

 

This has always been a problem. You've taken the position that you are a "special" person in the John Titor Saga and that whatever drives the story forward has to revolve around you.

 

A point I made way back when I was posting here and on other sites in 2003. Thread after thread in which Pamela steps forward to the podium as if the 'oficial Whitehouse spokesperson'. One can sense an increasing claim to 'ownership' of the story.

 

I do not buy all this Macbeth type 'was he real or wasn't he ?' wringing of hands.....

 

But I was angry...hurt..almost felt betrayed. All this time I have kept secrets even though I felt he may be some jerk that was lieing to me and using me...which he could very well be. Kay and John need to keep in mind that I have no way to verify if any of this was real. I have two sets of feelings for John. One if he was real...one if he was some jerk.

 

It has been patently obvious for years, on this forum, that there IS no ' if he was real '. Somewhere back on this forum, there is a letter from a nuclear physicist ( to Derby I think ) which completely demolishes the entire basis for Titor's alleged time machine. The device, as described by Titor, is not physically possible. I myself pointed that out right here in this forum years ago.

 

There is not simply one minor little technical difficulty with Titor's machine.....but a whole series of total impossibilities and violations of the basic laws of physics. And no, we're not talking about things that may be impossible now but might be in 30 years.....we are talking impossible as in pigs flying or the moon being made of cream cheese. And that's before one gets to the fact that Titor's alleged machine must have weighed several million tons....and would have wrecked any car's suspension !! WHY can't the believers finally grasp this ???

 

Seriously....it needs repeating. The device is a physical IMPOSSIBILITY. Is there some part of that the 'believers' don't comprehend ???? Does 'Impossible' mean the same thing in their dictionaries ??

 

Now as Titor's 'time machine' was a physical impossibility...it thus follows that Titor CANNOT have been a time traveller. There are no 'ifs' about it. There is no sense in which one could be left wondering. There is absolutely no room for ambiguity. It is 100% clear and concise and certain and indisputable......100% proven, with not a shred of room for doubt......proven 'beyond all reasonable doubt'......that Titor cannot have gotten here using that device.

 

One can thus state with absolute CERTAINTY that Titor was a hoax. This is an indisputable fact...no matter how much the believers may wish to ignore it.

 

Pamela has known all this for years......yet still we have Macbeth style wringing of hands and calls to Titor to come forward with 'the truth'. Never mind that the truth has been blatantly obvious for a long, long time.

 

 

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Ok now, come on Pam. I don't know you from Adam, and I'm sure in the beginning of this whole John Titor fiasco it may have been exciting for you, as I'm sure it was for others to think that possibly, just maybe, somebody had came back from the future to warn of things to come. To think you were some special person (and in no way am I implying you are not special to somebody) in this time travelers tale, only to wait all these years to see one prediction after another fall by the way side? I mean really. You have said yourself you spent countless hours chatting with this individual. Surely in those conversations the subject of the future was discussed and he told you all about how things would be, and unless he told you something substantial which has came to pass and you just have not told anybody; I fail to understand why you still hold on for dear life. Ten plus years of your life has came and gone while you have waited for this non-event. You still are waiting on a video of human time travel for god sake? Have you ever stopped to think that if indeed a person were to travel in time back to our date and then actually posted on the internet, that the Government would not be crawling all over that? The government already covers anything remotely suspicious about UFO's even though it is probable that they exist, for fear of mass public hysteria, but time travel, oh my god, that's like the holy grail. I'm also sure they look for certain things on the internet as well, believe me, I'm sure I could write certain things on the internet and the government would be pounding my door down if they thought it was serious. Do you not think if the government thought it was real they could not find this person or that the CIA would not be 'talking' to that Haber guy. I'd like to see him use the whole client/attorney thing then. Now this new thing comes out in late '09 about there being two Johns? Are you serious? You said you had three sets of emotions about this clown, well I would only have one. I would be pissed that somebody spent hours lying to me because they obviously thought I was gullible enough to believe them, played with my emotions only to leave me flat, and now the jokes on me for having done so. I would release everything I knew about them, every conversation I could recall would be put to record. I would do everything I could to ensure he never made another penny from this scam, but that's just me I guess. Seriously though, it's time to let this go. Move on with your life and go do the things you enjoy doing with people who matter and actually care for you and put the past behind.

 

 

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Trojan:

 

Do you have Titor envy?

 

The Divergence Table:

 

Titor 1

 

1999DEC28 2.480

 

2009MAR12 1.900

 

2000OCT12 2.005 NOV POSTS

 

1998OCT12 2.500

 

2001JAN02 2.004 JAN POSTS

 

2009MAR21 1.941

 

Titor 2

 

1999DEC28 2.490

 

1998JUL29 2.500

 

2000NOV27 2.004 DEC POSTS

 

2009JUL29 1.941

 

2001JAN31 2.004 FEB POSTS

 

1998OCT29 2.500

 

Some readings are from Pre and Bush´s Era

 

Others are Obama´s Era,

 

and The Hillary Clinton´s Era

 

:D

 

 

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You said you had three sets of emotions about this clown, well I would only have one. I would be pissed that somebody spent hours lying to me because they obviously thought I was gullible enough to believe them, played with my emotions only to leave me flat, and now the jokes on me for having done so.

 

What really gets me is that the whole Titor hoax was resoundingly PROVEN to be just that, even way back when Titor was posting. Even then, people were pointing out the impossibility of a 'black hole' that must have weighed millions of tons......resting comfortably on the back seat of a Chevvy without wrecking the suspension.

 

Even way back then....people were pointing out the absurdity of a supposed mini black hole being able to bend a beam of light by 30 degrees. Do the believers have ANY idea how much mass it takes to do that ?? The entire house...and half the surrounding town...would have imploded under the required mass.

 

As for Titor's claim about dropping electrons onto the mini black hole...it is laughable ! A black hole of the size Titor claims would be absolutely miniscule ( a black hole with the mass of the entire earth would be only 1 centimeter across ). It would be millions of times smaller than an atomic nucleus. The idea that one could just drop electrons ( whose electric charge is 10^40 times stronger than gravity ) onto it is frankly a joke !

 

And worst of all for Titor.....all black holes evaporate, at a rate proportional to their radius. For a mini black hole, we're talking billionths of a second. And no.....for such a black hole you CAN'T ( as Titor seems to think ) just throw more mass at it to keep it stable. The evaporation ( due to virtual particle pairs ) occurs faster than you can keep up...MUCH faster.

 

These are not simply things that I 'speculate' may be the case......they are FACT that one can check with any reputable scientist.

 

Titor's 'time machine' is a patent lie. People were saying so even 10 years ago. There is NO excuse for being 'taken in' by Titor.

 

All those comments just went 'wooooosh'...right over Pamela's head. Instead of those with actual scientific knowledge being listened to, they were just totally ignored as the likes of Pamela jumped on the Titor bandwaggon. The scientific minded by and large just threw their hands up in the air and wandered off......as the Titor farce had reached epic proportions of cognitive dissonance among believers.

 

To find anyone still....10 years later....wondering if Titor was 'the real deal' or not is frankly farcical in the extreme.

 

Yes, Pamela, you WERE 'duped' by Titor. And you played a nice little role of propagating his hoax for him, and keeping it alive long after it passed it's 'sell by' date.

 

 

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The Divergence Table:

 

....is a freakin pseudo-scientific joke. The divergence measuring device is yet another scientific impossibility. It's a piece of made up claptrap, as no such device could ever possibly exist....not least because it would violate one of the most basic fundamentals of quantum physics, the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

 

And come off it............the idea that some crappy little piece of circuitry in the back of a Chevvy can instantly measure 'divergence' ( whatever that is ) across the entire universe, when it would take any signals hours to even reach the nearest planets, is laughable.

 

It is not possible to even accurately measure the position of every particle within a test tube......let alone across the whole world. To anyone with even the remotest degree of scientific knowledge....Titor's 'divergence measurer' may as well be cardboard and duct tape for all the difference it would make.

 

But hey...believers...don't let such mere things as the facts stand in the way of a good episode of cognitive dissonance.

 

 

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you ARE the mofo!

 

take it from me, its a neverending circle here, and the ones you want to convince, will always turn a blind eye. i hope for your sake that you dont get sucked into it like i once was.

 

just remember, people like you are an essential part of selling titor too.

 

i love everyone on this site, including all the bad apples, but i have decided to move on. im not interested in playing fantasy or role playing. this site is just a distraction to the person that wants to learn.

 

 

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this site is just a distraction to the person that wants to learn.

I'm not sure if I would necessarily call this site a distraction in a bad way. I have always followed this site over the past five or six years, I've just never posted. I have always found it interesting to know other peoples perspectives on these types of issues. I do find it fascinating how people can believe in something when logic is staring them in the face and saying it can not be. When something is proven to be false I move on, how ever difficult that may be. The whole John Titor thing I found interesting because it shows how easily people can be sucked into believing a fabricated story which has been proven false on numerous occasions. Now, something new gets released, and the same people are dumb enough to fall for it all over again? It's like the start of the Mormon church, read about it because it's pretty funny.

 

 

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Did someone mention that they ride the short bus? ;)

 

can instantly measure 'divergence' ( whatever that is )

This has always been my beef with the hoaxer's story. He certainly was telling the truth about at least one thing: He was certainly no scientist. He made two crucial errors when he dreamed-up and presented his concept of "divergence" (the purpose of which was to make certain his story could not be properly falsified):

 

1) He did not figure that by using a percentage measure, that someone who actually understood science would ask the obvious question: What is the measure that equals 100%? In other words, what is the basis for this relative measurement?

 

2) Because he did not properly plan this part of the story, and one of us was certainly going to ask the question identified in (1) (and the question was asked), he was forced to commit his second glaring error with respect to "divergence": In what was clearly an attempt to try and prevent the lid from being blown off his story he said it was "an empirical measurement". What he did not understand was that he just dug his grave even deeper, rather than trying to throw people off the trail. Once you admit that something is an empirical measure, you are admitting that there is a defacto measurement basis for it (i.e. you HAVE to answer the question posed in problem 1 above).

 

He could have avoided problem (2) if, rather than just giving a flippant non-answer (which made thigns worse) he would have actually looked-up the definition of empirical first:

 

"1. derived from or guided by experience or experiment.

 

2. depending upon experience or observation alone, without using scientific method or theory, esp. as in medicine.

 

3. provable or verifiable by experience or experiment. "

 

So, while he thought by calling "divergence" an "empirical" measure would allow him to duck the first question (what is the 100% measure based upon), it actually made it that much more pertinent that he answer the very question he did not wish to (and could not) answer! Clearly, this was a trap of his own making that shows he did not properly research and prepare for questions about his "divergence" plot tactic... which is all it was.

 

These two problems are the most basic of scientific tenets, folks. And while Pamela may, indeed, be "short bus special", I know she is not so ignorant to not understand both of these problems were, in fact, problems with Titor's story. But like any true believer, she was not bothered with the facts. It was a romance novel to her. :D

 

Given his epic failure in these most basic tenets of scientific measurements, why anyone would choose to believe this admitted non-scientist when it comes to the technical makeup of his alleged time machine is beyond me!

 

I also had a good laugh back in the day when I saw him use a numerical value that is very well known to those of us in the aerospace business:

 

"TimeTravel_0

 

unregistered posted 26 January 2001 13:32

 

-- Yes, a 'ZD' is thought to be impossible. However, consider that an exact entry point 'may' not be necessary to get home. The important factor is the path, not the destination. Under multiple world theory, there are an infinite number of 'homes' that I could return to that don't have me there. The divergence for that window is somewhere near .002377%."

 

That was his attempt to make-up a number with a very small divergence. Let's not forget that this is a percentage measure, so the actual divergence in fractional measure is .00002377 times whatever the basis measure is for "divergence". But that numerical value sticks out like a sore thumb to an aerospace engineer. Why? Because every one of us recognizes that very special number as the standard day, sea-level density of air expressed in the British units of slugs per cubic foot!

 

spacer.png

 

Note the far right column for the measure of density...

 

Such things like this are not a coincidence. He was just throwing around numbers that he thought no one would recognize.

 

RMT

 

 

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