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The Other John


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Hello, many of you know me as a hoax, who came here about 1 year ago. I was. And I apologise for it, but it was needed.


I was doing my own research, and needed to get some key people's reactions, to a less elaborate story. I did it with some sucess.


I am not a time traveler, and certainly not from 2044. If anything I have experienced some psychic things related to me, but thats another story.


Like most the Titor saga intrigued me for years, and for years I was just a silent guy, coming here to read, until I decided to pull my investigation.


I still find it funny how some of you never crossed the right dots.


Per instance, why doesnt Oliver Williams appear on cameras? Why does he always has the info about Titor say... 5 minutes after it appeared? But the big question no one asked is: WHY IS OLIVER WILLIAMS VOICE, EXACTLY THE SAME AS LARRY HABBER? Sure the guy does try to change is voice, but his tone, and accent... still there.


Another part of my investigation, led me to discover that Pamela, is indeed part of part of Team Titor.


Oliver Williams website on titor, is registred under the same domain, and has the same owner, as the new JohnTitorFoundation.com website. Godaddy.com


The idea for Titor was just to play a hoax on you guys. But as it gained interest, Larry, took it to a new level, and tried to generate even more interest, so that he would sell all kinds of merchandise.


I still believe Pamela, probably isnt who she says she is. It wouldnt surprise me, if she was also one of the Habber boys doing her part. In the case of my "character" Linkman, its surprising (or not), how she quickly tried to disprove me, when its so easy for "her" to accept a guy she never met.


The 2 titor thing, was a necessity for the Habbers, considering there was already alot of talk about the titor story having flaws here and there. With Razimus doing his investigation, and Rai 2 following Larry's brother, the way to escape and try to refresh the story was to say "hey, im not just one, we are 2 time travelers, yeah, thats why you think im fictional, and i missed some points bla bla bla"


Theres another reason his book is worth 800 dollares or so. They dont want to sell it to the regular audience. They want the media to pick it up. The Hollywood writers. Thats their goal.


Titor is and always was... The Habbers.



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Well... I posted the name of the song that was in my JT book in the comments section on the video. I hope I did the right thing. No one else came forward. The john I spoke to never mentioned this song to me though. I was not told that this song was to be kept secret or anything so I hope it was ok to do. I tried to subtly post some of the lyrics at the end of some of my posts then decided heck I will just post it. No one said it was a secret and maybe this was its purpose all along. Who knows I have nothing to go on.



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Sorry. To explain that to you would give away the secret song. It might help you to know that only part of our conversations were shared on the board for all to see. You also have to realize that you and others are only basing your decision on that information only.

No, I'm not basing the conclusion on incomplete information. Of course I know that you haven't shared everything - principally because you've said so many times.


That he gave you something to remember is sufficient evidence to explain why you recall the details. It still doesn't explain at all why he would recall the details or why it would be important for him to recall them. The evidence over time has made it rather clear that this was pure fiction thus he's still out there. Yet he hasn't made any attempt to contact you publically, privately, on the side, on the TQ or any other way. And Lord knows, you've asked for him to do so many times here, on Anomalies and through Larry Haber. No joy.


This means that this relationship, whatever it was, was more important to you than he. Whatever life is left in the story, and there really isn't much from a financial point-of-view, depends on his not making any disclosures that would pull down the veil of anonymity. Again, that goes to his POV rather than yours. I'm sure that in your mind a disclosure by him would pose no such risk. But obviously he doesn't share that certainty. He trusted Art Bell with his phone number and snailmail address. But he does not share that level of trust with anyone else - not even you. He's lawyered up (if in fact he is not the lawyer himself) and knows that he has every reason to trust Art Bell because Art has assets that would be transferred. Art has a legal obligation not to disclose. You don't. Yes, you have a moral obligation - but that sort of "obligation" does not stand up in court.


In the end there is a disparity in the level of trust shared by the two of you. You have a song and he has a business. Business apparently trumps song.



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Oliver Williams website on titor, is registred under the same domain, and has the same owner, as the new JohnTitorFoundation.com website. Godaddy.com



I hate to burst your bubble, and I'm certainly no Titor apologist (to say the least), but pointing out GoDaddy as any sort of link is similar to saying that two people are the same because they are both composed on 78% water.


Yes, it's true. Both are composed of about 4/5th water but so is the Internet, in the US at least, composed of small sites anonymously registered on GoDaddy.


And more power to GoDaddy. As I recall, about 10 years ago, as a start-up company, they threw their entire net worth into one of the Super Bowl 30 second spots. It worked. They are the #1 place to go to register a site and get it hosted. And they still buy Super Bowl spots.


As to WIlliams - I have no evidence but it seems clear that he has some sort of working relationship with the JTF. No problem for me there. Two businesses in the biz of making money do form working relationships if they each see an advantage to be taken. The downside of it is that JohnTitor.com is probably the worst place to go to get information about John Titor (not to mention that most of what is there was lifted from this site and Anomalies). Nothing original.



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I would be very interested in talking with someone else who has a copy of johns book. I did notice that in the book there was mention of john arriving in 1998 and then in another area it said he arrived in 2000. I thought the book had quite a few errors and then I noticed when the mother talked about a team winning the superbowl I looked it up and it was actually the OTHER team that won. I was wondering if anyone else noticed this as well who has the book.

I think we had a few threads on this very subject many years ago. I've checked my files and I don't have my notes on this HDD (or any other on my current system) but I did write a document and saved it. I'll check an old HDD and see. Otherwise I suppose that I could read through The Book again. I have the items hi-lited.


In any case, you're correct. The Book Team made several errors while writing it. The dates that you mentioned were the most glaring.



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It does seem like you are right Darby. I did get contacted once by the mother,which seemed to be a very nice heartfelt letter but all attempts in asking why I never received the departure video fell on death ears. After the letter there has been zero contact. Actually I was suppose to receive a diary he was keeping when he was here as well that would have meant a lot to me. I would have treasured these things.perhaps I ruined it when I told everyone I received the label. Maybe I wasn't suppose to do that I don't know. But if that was true why the heartfelt letter from the mother? All they would of had to say to me is please keep these to yourself and no one would have ever known I received them. But you are right it seems as if either I am not trusted or that this friendship means very little to the other person. I do have to admit that.



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But if that was true why the heartfelt letter from the mother?

Again, this is from your POV and not necessarily from the POV of the JTF. If John Titor is a fictional character, and the vast majority of people believe for very good cause that to be the case, then "Momma" Kay Titor is a fictional character and the diary is likewise fictional. There's no heartfelt anything to be communicated.


At the time that the letter was communicated to you The Book was being promoted. If they had any business sense they would have depended on your disclosing it here and elsewhere as a form of free advertising. Having Momma Kay call in off-mike on Coast-2-Coast AM during one of Larry Haber's guest spots was also a form of free advertising.


Pamela, Larry and the JTF aren't your enemies but neither are they your friends. They are running a business, trying to make some money. Your relationship, from their perspective, is that of an unpaid volunteer in the enterprise. The founder of the John Titor Fan Club as it were. That relationship serves their purposes. Beyond that, however, there is no special loyalty and you shouldn't expect to become privy to any information other than that which serves their purposes. What you might desire isn't part of that formula.



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Follow-up on The Book:


Posted by John Titor on 01-28-2001 06:35 AM


My initial flight was from 2036 to 1975 (61 yrs). I then went from 1975 to 2000 (25 yrs.) Later this year, one of two favorable windows will open and I will return to my 2036 (35 yrs.) I am here now for personal reasons. The web page is not mine. I have been speaking online for about three months and the page is a collection of the various documents and pictures I have sent to other individuals.

Pg 64: Momma Kay wrote, 'Actually, John's trip from 1975 was to 1998, not 2000.'


In the forward, pg III, and on pg 1 Momma Kay says that he arrived in the summer of 1998, July 27th, 1998 to be exact. John got the date wrong in his 2nd post on Post-2-Post ('I am from 2036' thread).


Art Bell received the first fax on July 29, 1998.


The next most glaring problem in The Book is how Momma Kay describes JT's reaction to No Y2K.


Pg III: Momma Kay wrote, 'I paid little attention to the year 2000 computer problem until July 27, 1998, the day we met John Titor…On January 1, 2000, the world did not end as John said it would. Strangely, this did not seem to surprise him and instead this seemed to be a burden as a deep sense of sadness overtook him.'


The Book is about Y2K. John was very upset – burdened – overcome by a deep sadness when it didn't occur. We get that from the Forward; the letter from Momma Kay. But if we refer to the posts on Post-2-Post and here there's barely a word about Y2K from John until his last post on 23-MAR-2001.


Posted by John Titor on 03-24-2001 06:19 PM [snip the first part of the post for brevity] What amazes me is why no one here wonders why Y2K didn't hit them at all?


Bring a gas can with you when the car dies on the side of the road.





That's it. That's the entirety of John Titor's Y2K postings. The post Y2K online story evolved into a Y2K38 problem. It had nothing to do with Y2K…for pretty good reasons, obviously.


This person, whomever played Momma Kay, wasn't involved in the original writings. 'She' wasn't much aware of what had transpired online.



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Iam not ignoring anything Twighlight. I just have facts that you do not have. I am going to be gone for a little while researching.


Well I am sorry....but whatever 'facts' you have do not change the laws of physics. Titor's alleged 'time machine' is not physically possible. Pigs have more chance of flying than Titor's device has of moving through time even one second. Now THAT is a fact !


And yes, you are ignoring the relevant facts. Clearly.....as Titor had no time machine, he was not a time traveller.


None of the 'facts I do not have' change that one iota. What is more....as Titor was clearly not a time traveller, I'm at a loss to see why you would wish to continue to protect a load of 'secret' stuff that is just a pack of lies.


But it seems to me you have become so wrapped up in the saga that cognitive dissonance has set in.



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True Darby, yet, The info I got, was that it was registred by the same person.


I work for a big internet ISP provider in Europe, and had access to the info. Also, the mail's registered on both sites, can be found, and both are written... with CAPS.


Anyway, if Pamela isnt part of team titor, she is more gullable (spell?) than I tought.


Pamela, sweety, they forgot what the secret song was. You werent relevant to them. But as you kept talking about it on the web, you became more relevant than expected. And considering they dont remember what the song was, they just sent you a new one! The b-52 song, to make up, for the mistake, of forgetting the original song.



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True Darby, yet, The info I got, was that it was registred by the same person.

Been there - got the t-shirts.


There are but three ways for your source to have that information and two other possibilities to account for it:


1. Your source is the registrant


2. The actual registrant provided the information to your source


3. Your source illegally obtained the information


4. None of the above - your source is jerking your chain


5. You're still pulling our chain


I'm going for #4 for no other particular reason than 9 of 10 times over the past ten years re "Titor Inside Sources" #4 has been the right choice.


Obviously your source didn't validate the claim by giving you the information. Had he then you wouldn't be speculating on the subject. Your source is untested and his information is unsubstantiated.



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Uh....ok whatever Twighlite.


Lol....I never heard of anyone who was GENUINELY after the truth who simply responds with 'whatever' on being told it.


Frankly, I find your entire stance somewhat disingenous. It smacks ( as if it didn't always ) of someone who's true function is the Group Titor publicist. Titor 'left'....but you were ( conveniently ) left behind to wail over his departure for 10 years and keep the story alive.


I mean, come off it...at one point you were even acting as a go-between for Titor pics and emails, not to mention ( despite apparently having little scientific training ) explaining to people how Titor's device allegedly works. And then we have the swooning 'rainbow' messages as Titor rides off into the sunset. Pass me the sick bag someone !


Well....the trouble is, you cannot simultaneously try to come across as an eminently sensible person AND excercise such unquestioning gullibility. That alone says to me that such a dichotomy does not actually exist.......and that somewhere in this there is an 'act'.


One does seriously have to wonder. Why would anyone be so eager and willing to aid and abet the story of some guy they never met......on an internet where hoaxes abound and anyone can claim just about anything ? Isn't it a bit late.....10 years later.....to start wondering if he was real or not ?


On the off-chance that you are not just another member of Group Titor........I would gladly wager a bet. I would bet that you do not have a SINGLE piece of convincing evidence from Titor that he is a time traveller.


All Titor ever provided was a bridge in Brooklyn. Which you've spent the past 10 years trying to sell on.



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And to tell you the truth Twighlite after you admitted you like to lie and deceive on the internet and even think it is fun I kind of lost respect for you.


Lol. Sure I've been involved in hoaxes, etc. Mainly because I find it incredible that so many people are so gullible. One does not even have to keep a 'straight poker face', as they say, half the time.


There was a very good reason for my first hoax. I was sick and tired of the clique mentality of the 'believers'........and their ' OMG...are you seriously QUESTIONING if that's a ( substitute ghost, UFO, time traveller ) ' responses and mentality. Yes it IS fun exposing how some have such an open mind that their brain has fallen out. In creating a story that I knew to be fake, I could then be certain that a lot of people 'believe' for no good reason other than that they will believe anything.


Fact is....if everyone was like me and questioned absolutely everything right down to the last detail, the word 'hoax' would leave the dictionary. Mind you, so would half the religions and a load of other hocus pocus.


Anyone who hands anyone else a blank cheque labelled 'Trust'.....on the basis of absolutely no evidence whatever......is quite simply foolish.



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The difference between you and I is I have never lied about anything online concerning John.

Wow! Not too many caveats there, eh? So using a bit of predicate logic then, it would be safe to assume that perhaps you lied about things concerning John when you were offline? Or perhaps you have lied about things online, but not concerning John directly (perhaps things concerning the story, but not John himself).


Pamela, clearly more people than myself and Twilight have pointed out the odd, almost contradictory aspects of your behavior in propping the story up. It is extremely similar to another story I follow and am amazed by the reaction of the principles: Anthropogenic Global Warming. Slowly but surely the true story is coming out to show not only how flimsy the data was that these UN crooks based their reports/predictions upon, but it is even coming to light that they clearly acted with malice towards anyone even attempting to falsify their AGW theory. There really are a LOT of parallels to the John Titor story. Because even though the core story is clearly not Popper-falsifiable (and thus could NOT pass muster as science in any way), you would always pop-in to try and prop the story up and falsify the falsifiers...


And your sole tool for doing it? (One that was built-into the whole Titor story).... That secret song. You have gotten 10 years out of it. The AGW Alarmists have you beat, for now. But with the AGW Alarmists set to go down in the next 1-2 years, if you keep hanging on you may get the new record for attempts to falsify the falsifiers of bad science! :D





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I would argue that Piltdown Man is probably one of the best examples of a hoax....that was clearly designed to mock the overly eager efforts of the scientific community to support a specific theory. Hoaxes DO have their place.....if for no other reason than that they expose the prejudices, sycophancy, and clique-ism within any community.


Piltdown Man was believed in for 40 years.....despite several scientists warning that it could be a hoax. But those who warned of a hoax were dismissed by a science establishment eager to embrace this amazing new 'discovery' and get whatever reward was there for working on it. And THAT is the case with so many hoaxes.....people believe because there is something personal in it for them.


In my opinion a good hoax now and then is an essential part of science. It wakes people up...rattles the science community....and exposes a lot of pre-conceived notions.


I value the entire Titor hoax more in terms of what it shows about PEOPLE.....than what it shows about time travel.



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Pamela, clearly more people than myself and Twilight have pointed out the odd, almost contradictory aspects of your behavior in propping the story up.


It's the feigned ambiguity over the 'truth'......whilst at the same time completely dimissing out of hand any evidence that proves Titor a hoax. The repeated claim of wanting to know the 'truth'.....then the total ignoring of the truth on the many ocassions it has been provided. Anyone who dismisses Titor is accused of not believing in time travel, as if the entirety of time travel was dependant on Titor.


The ONLY conclusion one can come to is that here we either have a serious case of cognitive dissonance.....or a paid up lifetime member of Group Titor. I would judge the latter.


Let's face it.....Titor needed someone to keep the story alive after his 'disappearance'. The longer Titor stayed online, the more he ran the risk of getting caught out. How convenient, then, to have arranged his own personal fan club before his departure !


In the space of just a few short weeks, Pamela goes from ( allegedly ) never having heard of Titor.....to actively promoting him and even acting as a go-between for emails and pics. I mean come off it.........taking an interest in a story is one thing, but there is something HIGHLY suspicious about someone who is actively handing out the storyteller's campaign leaflets on the basis of no more evidence ( i.e none ) than the rest of us had.


The whole Titor/Pamela saga seems to me to have been built into the story right from the start. Given all the effort Titor had himself put into creating a story, the last thing he wanted was for it to all just fizzle out. Clearly, he had to find himself a disciple to spread the gospel of time travel far and wide after his ascension back into heaven.


It just seems too coincidental that said disciple was right there on hand.



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