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Re: Rhythm of Time: Telluric Currents

 

Darby

 

I don't think inventing a time machine is that hard. But as time moves forward it will become harder. The knowledge that we rely on keeps changing in the text books. Newtons Laws aren't entirely correct. He doesn't cover the rules for bodies experiencing three simultaneous forces. The answers will probably be found in basic observations that are right in front of our noses. Would you really be surprised to find out that lots of people already have time machines? Take a look around. Lots of candidates.

 

 

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Re: Rhythm of Time: Telluric Currents

 

KT,

 

I meant "time machine" in the most common sense of the idea - some "anything" no matter what it is that allows one to travel back in time.

 

We aren't having an argument. I was offering a scenario that if The Gadget actually worked and evidence was thereafter offered as you suggested, taking some artifact into the past and leaving it there to be discovered upon your return to your "present" that no one, not even an (honest) skeptic could ignore. Dishonest skeptics would ignore it in any case but (again), who cares?

I understood the context of your commentary. The topic of this thread is the Rhythm of Time; a discussion regarding frequencies : Whether that is the material posted in the top of the thread, or the Telluric Currents that were introduced later.

 

The first mention of a time "machine" was brought into this thread by you. And your perspectives as posted in this thread regarding the development and use of time machine's has been covered quite well in other threads.

 

I also understood your point regarding the suggested idea for proof for skeptics. Excellent idea IF one is attempting to prove something TO skeptics. This was not what I had in mind...my posted experiment to Timelord was suited to something entirely out of my own curiosity. Nothing more than that.

 

You did say that it is subjective argument.

Your words, not mine. To repeat what I wrote : Yes, there are numerous subjective points , however, there are numerous objective points , as well.

 

Nobody can deny that there are some intriguing anomalies relative to the Telluric Currents. The dynamics of which aren't entirely understood as of yet. Complex, yes, but there is enough material and resources available that anyone that takes the time to learn, can make use of those resources. And it doesn't take a bundle of money, either.

 

Been having all kinds of fun playing around with the USGS Geomag calculator ( link is in a previous post in this thread ); And learning how to read the data of the Real Time Charts ( linked in TimeLords Poll Thread ) has become a valuable achievment.

 

In looking at the Telluric Currents, from what I've come across so far, actually provides logical explaination(s) of numerous anomalies that have been attributed to aliens, secret advanced civilizations, ghosts, and other "paranormal" phenomenon.

 

That one or two people made up stories about encounters with Native American's that haven't existed in 300 years...may be so. That there are numerous accounts of these encounters, Hmm...worth the look-see. Of the people I've spoken with so far, they seem credible to me, with no reason to make up their experiences. In speaking to the Law Enforcement Officer, he made it clear that never should his name be mentioned with anything about his experiences, nor to publicly share exactly what his experiences have been, which means that there is information that the skeptics don't have, but just might be more useful than anyone could imagine.

 

That any debunkers here can't debunk a mysterious source; Too bad. What he said or has shown to me, has no bearing on the discussion taking place, here.

 

With the dynamics relative TO the Telluric Currents, Trinity Bay happens to have an interesting topography ( environment ), that is conducive for Telluric activity and Telluric anomalies.

 

So far, the only response relative to the Telluric Currents has been " interesting" ; And I would bet money ( $1.00 ) that no one read much of the material of the provided links.

 

Understanding the Telluric Currents IS the million dollars...now it's a matter of how the cash is spent. ( TimeLord )

 

That the fluctuations within the Telluric Currents can cause a 2650 V drop in a transatlantic cable during a magnetic storm demonstrates that although usually operating at minimal strength, they do have they're moments.

 

I am also in the midst of the Flu, and my mood isn't at it's best ( Does it show ? )

 

And yes, that happens to me, too. I have three different browsers : I.E., Firefox and Google Chrome. Don't know how many times I've been posting material in a thread, listening to music, checking and/or responding to my e-mails, up-loading and/or processing photographs, and then go to click on the Replay button for the music and/or close a window, and realize I just erased(lost)everything that I had written or done in processing a photograph, because I was on a different page than I thought. :(

 

 

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Re: Rhythm of Time: Telluric Currents

 

I don't think inventing a time machine is that hard. But as time moves forward it will become harder. The knowledge that we rely on keeps changing in the text books. Newtons Laws aren't entirely correct. He doesn't cover the rules for bodies experiencing three simultaneous forces. The answers will probably be found in basic observations that are right in front of our noses. Would you really be surprised to find out that lots of people already have time machines? Take a look around. Lots of candidates.

To add on what you wrote here...

 

Who would have guessed that homestyle garage tinkerers would be able to contrive log-lighters from scrap computers DVD-burning lasers ? Kind of goes to show that you never know what tinkerers can come up with, from laser log-lighters made from old computer parts to Earth Batteries made from a host of scrap parts.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvGhY67g7PQ

Well, back to the garage to continue tinkering with my time traveling machine...oh, just remembered, I don't have a garage.

 

 

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Re: Rhythm of Time: Telluric Currents

 

String Theory was introduced in 1982 as an attempt to quantize GR in terms of QM. We're 30 years into the effort, virtually every university physics department's theoretical physics program worldwide has been focusing the vast majority of their efforts toward string theory during that period and we still haven't solved the problem. In worldwide university research funding alone during that period we've already invested 100's of billions of dollars into the basic science necessary to begin to study time travel. During the entire 95 years of the effort we've already spent most of the trillion dollars if you figure in inflation adjustments. The LHC cost alone is approaching $9 billion.

Darby, ... :D

 

It doesn't matter how many people or much money you throw at trying to make and improve a square wheel, it's never going to roll. :) If they've failed so far, maybe they chose the wrong approach in the beginning.

 

 

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Re: Rhythm of Time: Telluric Currents

 

I realize hope may spring eternal for some of you.

 

But as for me, I believe I shall have another drink. Care to join me, Darby? ;)

 

RMT

In aircraft/aerospace design, Telluric effects and the Earth's GeoMagnetic Environment are included in the design process, are they not ?

 

It would seem that as an Aerospace Engineer that you would have the potential to contribute "something greater" ( other than low-level sarcasm, alcoholism and a winkey ) to a discussion concerning the dynamics of Telluric Currents and the Earth's electrical environment.

 

- quote -

 

Intrinsic difficulties encountered in obtaining understandings are basically related to several causes that can be co-responsible for observed effects and experiences; Such as discouraged geophysicists [ discouraged Aerospace Engineer's ? ]; From pursuing such inquiries vigorously.

 

-end quote-

 

I'm still looking for an answer to what a Temporal Fold is relative to the Telluric Currents ?

 

 

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Re: Rhythm of Time: Telluric Currents

 

( other than low-level sarcasm, alcoholism and a winkey )

It might have been good for you to ascertain exactly WHAT it is I am drinking before you assume it is alcohol. It could have explained my short answer.

 

I am drinking Imodium AD and Gatorade this weekend. Thanks to food poisoning on TUE night, I have not been able to eat a thing. Hence why, upon reading this thread from bed last night, all I could muster was some short sarcasm. Sorry to have offended.

 

I'm still looking for an answer to what a Temporal Fold is relative to the Telluric Currents ? If you don't know the answer, why not just say so ?

Because I would go even further than this. Before even questioning if there is such a relationship, the engineer in me would like a scientific definition of "temporal fold". The top hit from a google search comes up with an episode of Buffy The Vampire Slayer. Not too encouraging, that is.

 

The connotative use of these two words would tend to imply that there should be some sort of field equation that would be able to scientifically quantify what the beast is. This because the concept of a "fold" is usually associated with geometrics, if not higher forms of mathematics. Given that we also know that "temporal" MUST (that is not an option from current veridical science) involve SPACE as well as TIME, then I would posit such equations would have to be of at least vector order, and more likely tensor order.

 

But that aside, let me just say this: Let's not make this personal, OK? Especially when I am sick, without much ability to get around, my mind can really create some incisive rhetoric (and yes, usually sarcastic) if it gets personal. Darby is rigorously applying the scientific method to the things you are discussing, as am I. There is nothing personal about it, although I may have used sarcasm to briefly note I am not (scientifically) convinced.

 

You have given me a challenge above, and I have responded by reducing it even further as a challenge back to you. This is fully in line with the scientific method, because in science words mean things. We cannot progress in science without firm, scientific definitions of the things we wish to investigate. So...every time something presumptive or speculative is presented, someone following the true scientific method is going to ask for clear, crisp, and yes, scientific definitions of what is being discussed. Otherwise, we can have a speculation fest all day long, and not make any meaningful SCIENTIFIC progress.

 

Time for some more Gatorade and another nap.

 

RMT

 

 

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Re: Rhythm of Time: Telluric Currents

 

Wee...guess we both are bundles of joy when under the weather. I'm in the midst of combating the flu.

 

You know that I am sincere ( at least I would hope that you would know ) with saying that I pray that you feel better ASAP, and am sorry that you are having to experience any illness, regardless of the cause.

 

On a Science Fiction Discussion Forum, I would think that it would be understood that "proper scientific protocol and method" expectations are not going to be met by the folks who are so inclined.

 

This thread "was" merely a discussion between members with similar interests. Anybody that creates a post, and reads the replies, should not walk away from their computer feeling as though they made a mistake merely for expressing thier interest(s) relative to particular thoughts and/or ideas posted on a Science Fiction Discussion Forum.

 

But, that's just my opinion, nothing personal.

 

...would like a scientific definition of "temporal fold" ~ The top hit from a google search comes up with an episode of Buffy The Vampire Slayer...

Buffy the Vampire Slayer ? Didn't get that one, but, does exemplify the frustration I'm having in getting a straight answer to the question.

 

Temporal Fold was mentioned in one of the linked materials ( forget which one ) regarding the Telluric Currents. I ran into the same problem you did...I can not find any expanded explaination or definition as to what "Temporal Fold" means.

 

Time Dependent ; easy to figure out what was meant there, obviously, any measurements taken within fluctuating field's of energy are "time dependent". What is measured at any given moment, will invariably change when the next measurement is taken.

 

We cannot progress in science without firm, scientific definitions of the things we wish to investigate.

Unfortunately, the Telluric Currents are not completely understood. Do they exist ? Yes. Can they be measured ? Yes. Does anybody know all of the dynamics, effects and/or potential of the Telluric Currents ? No.

 

However, even though we don't have firm, scientific definitions; Are we to completely refrain from obtaining understandings which are basically related to observed effects and experiences ?

 

 

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Re: Rhythm of Time: Telluric Currents

 

You know that I am sincere ( at least I would hope that you would know ) with saying that I pray that you feel better ASAP, and am sorry that you are having to experience any illness, regardless of the cause.

Yes, I do know you are sincere, and the kind thoughts are much appreciated. I started to get my appetite back on Sunday, and I was back on a "firm footing" by Monday morning...just in time to return to work! :( And I hope you have likewise shaken off that flu!

 

This thread "was" merely a discussion between members with similar interests. Anybody that creates a post, and reads the replies, should not walk away from their computer feeling as though they made a mistake merely for expressing thier interest(s) relative to particular thoughts and/or ideas posted on a Science Fiction Discussion Forum.

Understood. But just because someone believes this is a science fiction forum does not mean other people should be prevented from actually discussing science viz-a-viz the subject matter. And the part I have emboldened gets to the heart of the matter. Why should anyone "feel they made a mistake" just because another poster interjects with what the scientific method has to say on a particular topic? I cannot control how people feel about themselves, so I stopped trying long ago. But more importantly, I am not going to cease from spreading the good news of the scientific method just because someone may take it the wrong way. Fair enough?

 

Buffy the Vampire Slayer ? Didn't get that one, but, does exemplify the frustration I'm having in getting a straight answer to the question.

 

Temporal Fold was mentioned in one of the linked materials ( forget which one ) regarding the Telluric Currents. I ran into the same problem you did...I can not find any expanded explaination or definition as to what "Temporal Fold" means.

Indeed, and the application of the scientific method has rules about such things. If someone does not properly define terms, then no scientific stock should be placed in such terms. They are fluff. And the worst thing once can do, *IF* one is interested in adhering to the scientific method, is to make assumptions about such a term and how it may relate to whatever scientific point the writer is making. We cannot and must not assume if we are going to get to the bottom of things from a scientific standpoint. This is why science is rigorous, and why proper application of it has seen us advance so far.

 

Time Dependent ; easy to figure out what was meant there, obviously, any measurements taken within fluctuating field's of energy are "time dependent". What is measured at any given moment, will invariably change when the next measurement is taken.

Exactly. Agreed. And a very mundane aspect of time this is...things change as time passes. So the danger (again, *IF* one is interested in a scientific pursuit of the issues) is to assume that by adding the term "fold" this somehow means an ability to alter or control time. Such has not been established, scientifically, at all. Hence, it would be incorrect (and I take pains to caveat: from a scientific standpoint) to do so.

 

Unfortunately, the Telluric Currents are not completely understood. Do they exist ? Yes. Can they be measured ? Yes. Does anybody know all of the dynamics, effects and/or potential of the Telluric Currents ? No.

Well, but we do know quite a bit about the Telluric Currents, in that they are simple currents of electricity flowing thru the earth. And they are generated as a result of the earth's magnetic field. We know a great deal about how magnetic fields induce electrical current flow. But in the same vein of your final statement in the quote above, I can ask "Does anybody know ALL of the dynamics, effects, and/or potential of electromagnetics?" No. But thanks to folks like Ohm, Kirchoff, and who could forget James Clerk Maxwell, we do know a helluva lot about e/m. Calling them a specific name ("Telluric Currents") does not change the fact that they are ordinary electrical currents. What makes them interesting is their massive scale, and the plurality of interactions at that massive scale. It is exactly the same phenomenon as global climate, which scientists LOVE to model, yet the honest ones know the models do not, and cannot, capture ALL of the dynamics of earth's climate. However, we have a solid foundation of fluid mechanics and thermodynamics that tell us the basics about what drives the climate. The problem comes from the scale of the earth's climate, and the number of simultaneous interactions. This is what makes the problem hard. But the basics are nowhere near mysterious. Same is true for the Telluric Currents. And I would hasten to guess that the analogy to climate is a very good one.

 

However, even though we don't have firm, scientific definitions; Are we to completely refrain from obtaining understandings which are basically related to observed effects and experiences ?

You say "understandings", but I believe you were doing is something else. Namely, you were positing potential relationships of one thing (Telluric Currents) to another (undefined) thing, "Temporal Folds". And I must say that *IF* you are seeking to pursue a scientific investigation, then this is EXACTLY what the scientific method says you SHOULD refrain from. Namely, one should NOT posit a relationship between two phenomenon when there is zero scientific (veridical) evidence that a relationship even exists. Moreover, as discussed, one of the two terms is not even properly quantified, thus making the potential relationship even more tenuous.

 

So again let me take pains to qualify my words. Am I saying "you should never even think about such things?" Of course not. What myself, and to even a greater extent, Darby, do here is interject scientific thinking and act as the honest broker of veridical science. Some actually might appreciate it. I do understand that others may not give a rat's behind about following veridical science (our friend Einstein seems to fall into this category). But I am sure you would agree that just because someone doesn't care does not mean our inputs should be squelched, right? It is a free and open discussion, and people should take from it what they wish, contribute what they wish, and ignore what they wish. By no means are we here to imply that you should never have flights of fancy, or never consider what may be, and most certainly one should NOT believe that just because we may point out such thoughts may not follow the scientific method that those thoughts were "mistakes".

 

Fair enough?

 

RMT

 

 

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Re: Rhythm of Time: Telluric Currents

 

Yes, I do know you are sincere, and the kind thoughts are much appreciated. I started to get my appetite back on Sunday, and I was back on a "firm footing" by Monday morning...just in time to return to work! And I hope you have likewise shaken off that flu!

Glad you're feeling better, wife got food poisoning awhile ago, not any kind of fun at all. What helped her to get through her dose of poisoning was Peppermint Tea. She got over it much faster than some of her co-workers.

 

The Flu is hanging in there. However, looking at the bright side, having the Flu is also an excellent ( although involuntary ) diet program of sorts. Something I'm sure you experienced, nothing in the way of food has much of an appeal and ingesting any food has its consequences.

 

Understood. But just because someone believes this is a science fiction forum does not mean other people should be prevented from actually discussing science viz-a-viz the subject matter. And the part I have emboldened gets to the heart of the matter. Why should anyone "feel they made a mistake" just because another poster interjects with what the scientific method has to say on a particular topic? I cannot control how people feel about themselves, so I stopped trying long ago. But more importantly, I am not going to cease from spreading the good news of the scientific method just because someone may take it the wrong way. Fair enough?

I am not proclaiming that anyone should cease from spreading the good news of the scientific method, I could have just as easily highlighted " SCIENCE " ; Instead of "fiction". My point is that we either address the issues as presented, without including comments that are conducive to name calling or personal aspersions...nobody likes that at anytime, and has nothing to do with any points, or debate relative to a presentation of thoughts, concepts and/ or ideas.

 

Simply put, even though someone might believe any particular presentation to be sheer fantasy, doesn't provide the foundation to become a Snidely Whiplash.

 

We've been down this road before, so don't really want to pursue this any longer. I believe you know where I'm coming from relative to this issue, and I can't claim that I, myself, haven't been guilty of authoring Snidely Whiplash type replies and/ or commentaries. We all have the option of determining "how" we treat others, wherever that may be, and "should" treat others how we ourselves wish to be treated. And if we are in a role-model capacity, then it becomes a responsibility to become a quide and set an example.

 

It is understood that there are several members here that accomplish admirable deeds, including yourself, who get caught up in the rigorous patterns of the work day and merely wish to let off some steam and have a bit of fun here. Nothing wrong with that, but, not if another member is the "butt-end" of a not-so-nice joke, or comment. If "you" don't like it, chances are good, nobody else does either. One thing to use the Mirror Response Method, quite another to be the reflectOR, as opposed to the reflectEE.

 

Indeed, and the application of the scientific method has rules about such things. If someone does not properly define terms, then no scientific stock should be placed in such terms. They are fluff. And the worst thing once can do, *IF* one is interested in adhering to the scientific method, is to make assumptions about such a term and how it may relate to whatever scientific point the writer is making. We cannot and must not assume if we are going to get to the bottom of things from a scientific standpoint. This is why science is rigorous, and why proper application of it has seen us advance so far.

Can't fault anything pointed out here. However, it occurs to me that with anything, an idea or thought comes first. Somebody, somewhere has an experience or witnesses something, and forms a question relative to the experience or thought. Then the quest begins to satisfy that curiosity, scientific or no.

 

Jules Verne is a good example of this :

 

-Wikipedia quote -

 

Some of Verne's ideas about the not-yet-existing submarines which were laid out in this book turned out to be prophetic, such as the high speed and secret conduct of today's nuclear attack submarines.

 

In the day of Jules Verne, his ideas were in the realm of science fiction , and "were" subject to criticism based on the knowledge of the scientific community at the time, but look what happened. In time, the ideas/thoughts of Jules Verne became reality. Alhought he did make mistakes, still, he first had the idea, and presented his ideas to the world.

 

" While my book Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea is entirely a work of imagination, my conviction is that all I said in it will come to pass. " ~ Jules Verne

 

Not bad for a work of imagination, eh ?

 

You say "understandings", but I believe you were doing is something else. Namely, you were positing potential relationships of one thing (Telluric Currents) to another (undefined) thing, "Temporal Folds". And I must say that *IF* you are seeking to pursue a scientific investigation, then this is EXACTLY what the scientific method says you SHOULD refrain from. Namely, one should NOT posit a relationship between two phenomenon when there is zero scientific (veridical) evidence that a relationship even exists. Moreover, as discussed, one of the two terms is not even properly quantified, thus making the potential relationship even more tenuous.

This all began with shared experiences. That the tellers of the experiences DID encounter "somebody" extraordinary, or unusual. In discussing the experiences of these people, it was suggested to take a look at the Telluric Currents.

 

Temporal Fold was mentioned in a scientific paper regarding the dynamics of Telluric Currents and Earths Electrical Environment. However, the authors did not explain what they meant by including Temporal Fold in their paper.

 

As a guess, I believe all they are saying is that there may be one particluar flow ( thread ) of energy traveling at a specific rate of speed, folding into/onto another "thread" of energy that is traveling at a different rate, and has nothing to do with Time Traveling. However, that the interaction does not affect time somehow...I simply don't know without conducting experiments.

 

But, reckon I has to have the idear "first", ya know what I mean ?

 

Based on the other material presented in the paper, what occurs to me, is that we have a fluid movement of energies. These currents of energy are influenced by a complex set of interactions, and can be shaped into numerous "patterns".

 

Temporal variance, was also mentioned in the paper. Temporal Variance could be perceived to mean something other than what it does by some readers. I believe that when some readers see the word Temporal, that time travel is involved, which couldn't be further from the truth in the use of the term in context.

 

One thing that comes to mind, is the accounts of balls of light that "seem" to chase people in cars. I'm sure you've heard or read about these experiences. Mostly, these balls of light are attributed to aliens or secret government experiments. However, in studying the Telluric Currents, or the Geomag/Electrical Environment, I could easily deduce that due to a specific state of conditions, a short-circuit of sorts, takes place, and produces a ball of light ( charged particles ).

 

And the only reason why the ball of light "seems" to be chasing the car, is because the vehicle has properties inducive to the particular charge of the ball of energy to be attracted to the vehicle. In essence, it isn't "chasing" the car, but are simply charged particles, being attracted to another set of charged of particles, namely, the vehicle.

 

Since we all are, in essence, charged particles, I could imagine that under specific conditions, an imprint is bound-up within a stream of the Telluric Currents. And under the appropriate conditons, somebody might be able to visually see this imprint. They might call it a ghost. In some ways, they are correct, but the "ghost" they are seeing, isn't what they think it is.

 

Relative to time travel, that each moment has a frequency signature, and even though is far to complex for "us" to reproduce, doesn't mean that nature itself can't. That a fold of some type does indeed occur, and the frequency signatures of the past somehow co-mingle with the frequency signatures of the present --- no one can say with certainty that it is completely impossible.

 

Building a time machine, in the romantic sense, might be impossible. However, that nature herself isn't capable of containing/creating temporal anomalies, I would hesitate to claim that is 100 percent impossible.

 

At this time, all any of us can say, scientist or not, is that : "I Don't Know."

 

Just because we can't explain it ( yet ) ; In no way mean's that "something" isn't happening.

 

In this instance, if one person claims to have run across Warriors that ceased to exist 300 years ago, yeah, that would be subject to extreme doubt. However, when there are numerous experiences and from credible witnesses, something is going on.

 

My first thought after collecting as many of the accounts as I could, was that what these people are experiencing are either :

 

1) A group of people pulling a prank and dressing up to look like Warriors of the extinct Tribe.

 

2) A group of decendents of the original Tribe that escaped into the swamps to avoid being killed.

 

However, if it is a group of pranksters, then they must be handing down the prank to others through-out the years. Sort of like saying that a group of pranksters are behind the Bermuda Triangle events.

 

And, no one has yet come upon any remnants of any such groups living in the swamps.

 

All encounters are extremely brief, and during specific conditions. Through the links I provided, anyone that wants to see the Electrical Environment at play, can do so for themselves. Actually, when there are weather or climatic events, it is interesting to look at the Real Time Data Charts and compare those readings to the climatic events.

 

When the Norway Spiral took place...interesting to see the Real-Time Charts then...

 

The Law Enforcement Officer saw what appeared to be a Karankawa Warrior stand-up from within the brush, and immediately gave chase after having an arrow shot at him. However, the Warden could not find anyone, nor could he find any tracks( signs ) of someone who would have certainly left some sort of evidence of their presence.

 

That the region where this occured is subject to disturbances in the Geomag/electrical environment is a given. The physical make-up of the region is unique, and is conducive for anomalies to occur.

 

That they may be temporal disturbances, especially under the rules of science, however remote, is still within the realm of possibilities.

 

But I am sure you would agree that just because someone doesn't care does not mean our inputs should be squelched, right? It is a free and open discussion, and people should take from it what they wish, contribute what they wish, and ignore what they wish. By no means are we here to imply that you should never have flights of fancy, or never consider what may be, and most certainly one should NOT believe that just because we may point out such thoughts may not follow the scientific method that those thoughts were "mistakes".

 

Of course not, Nobody should have their input squelched. But, there are ways of doing just that via the composition ( tone ) of a response. It should be a free and open discussion, to a point, which was addressed above, and yeah, fair enough. There never was anything personal in my approach, was just making a point. No offense was intended at any time.

 

 

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Re: Rhythm of Time: Telluric Currents

 

Regarding the temporal folds, I recommend a large amount of shaving cream and a high quality razor produced by Ockham. :)

 

However interesting telluric currents may be, the universe (at least around here) is full of electric currents - they're not limited to the ground. Of course there's ligthning in the clouds, solar wind, the heliospheric current sheet, etc. So there's really a continuous (or somewhat continuous) flow of current to/from the sun, all through the earth, and beyond. :oops:

 

 

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Re: Rhythm of Time: Telluric Currents

 

Regarding the temporal folds, I recommend a large amount of shaving cream and a high quality razor produced by Ockham.

 

However interesting telluric currents may be, the universe (at least around here) is full of electric currents - they're not limited to the ground. Of course there's ligthning in the clouds, solar wind, the heliospheric current sheet, etc. So there's really a continuous (or somewhat continuous) flow of current to/from the sun, all through the earth, and beyond.

The Universe ( at least around here ) is full of electric currents...but...I am not anywhere else in the Universe, but here, at least as per Google Earth's "You Are Here" bubble thing-a-McBobble.

 

I did order Jacob's Ladder for - The Ultimate Universe Experience , but the vendor made a mistake and I received instead Jacobs Ladder Total Body Climbing Treadmill - The Ultimate Fitness Experience.

 

As far as a large amount of shaving cream and a high-quality razor produced by Ockham...I am sporting a full beard, so don't really need 'em.

 

Thank-you for the recommendation, though. :)

 

 

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Re: Rhythm of Time: Telluric Currents

 

Thought you might enjoy this article, as the relationship between the earth's core and the telluric currents is certainly a strong one:

 

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/12/17/first-measurement-of-magnetic-field-in-earths-core/

 

And especially this quote:

 

The Earth's magnetic field is produced in the outer two-thirds of the planet's iron/nickel core. This outer core, about 1,400 miles thick, is liquid, while the inner core is a frozen iron and nickel wrecking ball with a radius of about 800 miles – roughly the size of the moon. The core is surrounded by a hot, gooey mantle and a rigid surface crust.

 

 

 

The cooling Earth originally captured its magnetic field from the planetary disk in which the solar system formed. That field would have disappeared within 10,000 years if not for the planet's internal dynamo, which regenerates the field thanks to heat produced inside the planet. The heat makes the liquid outer core boil, or 'convect,' and as the conducting metals rise and then sink through the existing magnetic field, they create electrical currents that maintain the magnetic field. This roiling dynamo produces a slowly shifting magnetic field at the surface.

 

 

 

'You get changes in the surface magnetic field that look a lot like gyres and flows in the oceans and the atmosphere, but these are being driven by fluid flow in the outer core,' Buffett said.

 

Now, whether those currents contain enough power to warp spacetime (my informed supposition is they are not even close) is another matter altogether.

 

RMT

 

 

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Re: Rhythm of Time: Telluric Currents

 

The title of the article made me chuckle. lol. Was an interesting read, thank-you for the link.

 

...whether those currents contain enough power to warp spacetime (my informed supposition is they are not even close) is another matter altogether.

Agreed. Under "normal" conditions, the currents may not exhibit enough power to warp space-time.

 

However, the potential of watt the currents in the Electrical Environment might be capable of doing under certain conditions ( i.e., magnetic storm ) does result in known and UN-known "effects"; There are still questions that have yet to be completely satisfied.

 

The fundamental causes of telluric currents are produced either through electromagnetic induction by the time-varying, external-origin geomagnetic field OR whenever a conducting body ( such as sea water ) moves across the Earth's permanent magnetic field.

 

 

 

The complexities associated with telluric currents arise from the complexities in the external sources and in the conductivity of the Earth itself.

 

The Earths Electrical Environment

 

 

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Re: Rhythm of Time: Telluric Currents

 

However, the potential of watt the currents in the Electrical Environment might be capable of doing under certain conditions ( i.e., magnetic storm ) does result in known and UN-known "effects"; There are still questions that have yet to be completely satisfied.

Though true that we don't have all the answers, we do have a laboratory nearby with which we can and do study electrical phenomena that don't occur on Earth.

 

We have the sun - an electrical dynamo that cannot be recreated on Earth. With all of its mass, gravity and multi-thousand kilometer long "lightning bolts" covering its entire surface it manages to warp spacetime by about 1.7 arcseconds at grazing incidence along its limb. Time travel to the past requires a closed timelike curve and the sun falls short by a factor of 76,235. 1.7 arcseconds is 1/76,235ths of a closed loop.

 

Is it possible that an odd set of curcumstances could sumultaneously occur on a star that results in a CTC (other than gravitational collapse into a black hole or some other "end of stellar life" event, i.e. we assume that the star remains on the Main Sequence)? Its possible, I guess. Quantum uncertanty does not rule it out. But our sun has been churning and burning away for about 4 billion years and it hasn't happened yet. That's pretty long odds.

 

 

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Re: Rhythm of Time: Telluric Currents

 

Understood, and I agree with what you're pointing out. From my point-of-view, here are these accounts of people encountering Warriors of a Native American tribe that hasn't existed for approx. 300 years.

 

The most likely explainations as to why these encounters are taking place are probably one of two reasons.

 

1) Pranksters

 

2) Decendents of the original tribe

 

1a) The problem with this possibility is that the range of the occurances makes it unlikely that any particular group has been doing this through-out the years.

 

IF it is a group of pranksters, they are going all out, not only with the appropriate attire, but also going so far as to shoot an "era appropriate" arrow at an armed Law Enforcement Officer. Game Wardens are a wily bunch, and for one not to be able to track a group of pranksters, would also seem to be unlikely. If I shot an arrow at a Game Warden, in the effort to "run away", I know I wouldn't be taking the time to 'not' leave behind some signs that I was there. I'm not talking about personal items being dropped on the ground, but normal tracking signs...bent grass, bent and broken branches, footprints, etc. .

 

2a) IF they are decendents of the original tribe, and are still hiding out in the swamps, following the traits of the original tribe, would be difficult to track. The original Karankawa were known for their stealth like abilities in sneaking up on enemies.

 

However, with this as a possbile reason for the encounters, it would seem that someone, somewhere, would have come across remnants of their encampments. However great the Karankawa might have been as outdoorsmen, a mistake would be made sometime, and evidence of their existence discovered.

 

Of the two "reasonable" explainations for the encounters, I tend to lean towards the possibility that the people being encountered are remnants of the original tribe. Possibly dressing-up ( or dressing down ) and partaking in the customs of their ancestors.

 

Even then, it takes time to develop the skills to completely vanish into the wilderness, and not leave behind trackable evidence.

 

I just found it interesting that with the instance of the lineman, that he was called out to repair a power line that had been affected by a telluric current anomaly, and the region is known for high telluric activities.

 

Another factor to take into consideration, it is one thing to discuss typing away on the keyboard, quite another to actually go into that area, personally.

 

Regarding Pahana, somebody did in fact visit the Hopi Tribe in the past. That he may have said that other white men were coming that were not like him...have to wonder what he meant by that statement, i.e. "not like him..." ?

 

Although the story of Pahana can be reasonably explained, still remains a mystery as to who Pahana was in fact. From the descriptions of Pahana, that he might have been a Knight Templar, also opens a door of mystery, with more questions, then answers.

 

As unlikely as time travel might be as an explaination, still is "fun" to contemplate, and also provides the foundation for learning about concepts that might otherwise have gone un-noticed. As mentioned, I have been having a grand ol'time in learning about Geomagnetics and playing around with the resources available.

 

 

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Re: Rhythm of Time: Telluric Currents

Understood, and I agree with what you're pointing out. From my point-of-view, here are these accounts of people encountering Warriors of a Native American tribe that hasn't existed for approx. 300 years.

 

The most likely explainations as to why these encounters are taking place are probably one of two reasons.

 

1) Pranksters

 

2) Decendents of the original tribe

 

.

There is the other possibility that the accounts of these encounters have been fabricated. However, I find your whole story fascinating. Your account reminds me of other descriptions of the alleged "Time Slip" phenomena. The subject of time-slips ans common factors was brought up recently in another thread. Years ago I previously heard a story from somebody who is from the same place as my wife (in South East Asia). The story is similar in someways to your story and some of the accounts documented by Jenny Randles. Of course, all this information is anecdotal, but I find it interesting none-the-less:

 

"I remember walking with my grandma at around 8pm in a pretty dark and misty area, suddenly, we both saw people dressed in 1800s attire. Spanish soldiers walking around with torches and knife-rifle on their hands. Sure some of them were looking at us but my granny said...keep going as if she had already been through that experience before. We continued walking and ignoring them. Minutes later, we found ourselves back where we were like we havent left at all. Granny looked at the time and she said we spent about half an hour dealing with that experience."

 

Note that the person recalling the story describes a "mist". There are many other catalogued accounts by Jenny Randles, who report the sight of a mist or fog during the phenomena . I have not other information to offer about the account I have just relayed. However, here is an authentically reported story in an Australian newspaper, dated 1946 (The Western Mail). Titled, "Weird Story", please note the report of a "fog". Is this story evidence of an alleged time-slip? Did the writer fabricate the story in order for it be published? If so, was it coincidence that his time-slip story also included the sight of fog? Like I said, all very interesting.

 

01 Aug 1946 - Weird Story

 

 

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There is the other possibility that the accounts of these encounters have been fabricated. However, I find your whole story fascinating. Your account reminds me of other descriptions of the alleged "Time Slip" phenomena. The subject of time-slips ans common factors was brought up recently in another thread. Years ago I previously heard a story from somebody who is from the same place as my wife (in South East Asia). The story is similar in someways to your story and some of the accounts documented by Jenny Randles. Of course, all this information is anecdotal, but I find it interesting none-the-less:

"I remember walking with my grandma at around 8pm in a pretty dark and misty area, suddenly, we both saw people dressed in 1800s attire. Spanish soldiers walking around with torches and knife-rifle on their hands. Sure some of them were looking at us but my granny said...keep going as if she had already been through that experience before. We continued walking and ignoring them. Minutes later, we found ourselves back where we were like we havent left at all. Granny looked at the time and she said we spent about half an hour dealing with that experience."

 

Note that the person recalling the story describes a "mist". There are many other catalogued accounts by Jenny Randles, who report the sight of a mist or fog during the phenomena . I have not other information to offer about the account I have just relayed. However, here is an authentically reported story in an Australian newspaper, dated 1946 (The Western Mail). Titled, "Weird Story", please note the report of a "fog". Is this story evidence of an alleged time-slip? Did the writer fabricate the story in order for it be published? If so, was it coincidence that his time-slip story also included the sight of fog? Like I said, all very interesting.

 

01 Aug 1946 - Weird Story

 

That so many people fabricated their experiences, is possible, however, I am leaning towards the idea that maybe the experiences just were not as perceived; a good example of what I mean would be something like the Marfa 'ghost' Lights.

 

I read about them in several books that proclaimed that the phenomenon has been taking place for centuries, when in fact the reports of these lights began just after a highway had been constructed in a particular location, and it has been proven several times that the ghost lights are actually an anomaly created from automobile headlights and environmental factors.

 

( Why would the authors of the books mentioning the 'ghost' lights stretch the truth about when the experiences "really" started ? )

 

The people that have seen the Marfa 'ghost' lights actually did have the experiences, however, didn't accurately perceive what it was they had experienced.

 

As for the experiences in the Trinity Bay area, as interesting as the experiences may be, and perhaps some sort of time anomaly does take place there, I think I will have to go with distorted or exaggerated perceptions. All the people did indeed experience "something" - just wasn't what they thought.

 

The best way to prove (or disprove) the experiences as described by the people in the Trinity Bay area is to travel there in person and experience it for yourself.

 

 

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I read about them in several books that proclaimed that the phenomenon has been taking place for centuries, when in fact the reports of these lights began just after a highway had been constructed in a particular location, and it has been proven several times that the ghost lights are actually an anomaly created from automobile headlights and environmental factors.

 

( Why would the authors of the books mentioning the 'ghost' lights stretch the truth about when the experiences "really" started ? )

 

The people that have seen the Marfa 'ghost' lights actually did have the experiences, however, didn't accurately perceive what it was they had experienced.

 

As for the experiences in the Trinity Bay area, as interesting as the experiences may be, and perhaps some sort of time anomaly does take place there, I think I will have to go with distorted or exaggerated perceptions. All the people did indeed experience "something" - just wasn't what they thought.

 

The best way to prove (or disprove) the experiences as described by the people in the Trinity Bay area is to travel there in person and experience it for yourself.

That's a fair conclusion to arrive at. Why do I get the feeling that you have changed your viewpoint somewhat from your earlier posts?

 

I maybe off topic here, but when I try to tell people that the ufo experience is not a new one, but has been experienced by people 100's of years ago, they look at me like I'm mad. (note: when I refer to ufo's, I do not necessarily mean Extraterrestrial crafts etc). Verifiable evidence of a ufo sighting that occurred in 14th century medieval China, can be found in the National Palace Museum, Taiwan. Here is a translation of a sighting by Liu Ying:

 

"“Rising at dawn, I saw through the window a brilliant light crossing the Milky Way. I then saw three glowing objects appearing in the southern part of the sky, two of which flew away disappearing rapidly from my view. What remained had five unequal lights underneath, while on its upper part I noticed something shaped like a dome. The unknown object began to move in zigzag in a similar fashion to a falling leaf. At the same time, something in flames fell from the sky. Shortly afterwards, the Sun rose but its luminosity was tarnished by the luminous object which moved rapidly in a northern direction. In the western part of the sky, a green cloud was suddenly agitated by another unknown object, which was oval in shape, flat, and was descending quickly. This object had a length of over nine feet and was surrounded by raging flames; it ascended and then descended. In view of this splendid and emotional spectacle, I ran towards the village to alert its dwellers. As my friends walked out of their houses, the flying contraption disappeared.”

 

The reason I share this is because people experience things, that at the time seem inexplicable and may perceive the experience differently to what actually occurred. But with the ufo sighting above, it is very hard to imagine what other "phenomena" Liu Ying could have experienced other than that of a ufo (as what many people nowadays purport to witness). Similarly, "time-slip" accounts appear to have similar components to them, that makes one think.

 

 

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