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Alas Babylon!


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Fascinating Darby. Ironically you spoke with someone out of time whilst you yourself are trapped in time. You got one thing right though awhile back. Remember when you said we couldn't survive a total nuclear war? You were correct.

You're correct. Given the specific scenario posed I said that the OP would have little chance of survival.

 

With respect to Russia and kissing their butts to make nice and play like we are friends, it isn't going to happen. Losing one's life to a fast neutron flux or losing one's liberty to the "peaceful progressive people's" socialism isn't much of a choice. One is quick death and the other is slow death.

 

 

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Where did that come from Darby? I thought socialism is always a minor party in the west's politics.

My friend, where you been the past 65 years since the end of WWII? The governments of Europe are all mostly socialist today. The progressive socialist movement in the USA began with the election of Woodrow Wilson in 1912, spun out of control with FDR and the New Deal, crushed down on America during Lyndon Baines Johnson's Great Society and totally ignores even a wink-and-a-nod compliance with the Constitution during the current Presidency. As one of my State's great members of the US House said a while ago, if you want to know what's in the bill (Obama Care) you have to first vote on it. Wonderful stuff, Madame (Former) Speaker Nancy P. :)

 

But seriously, try this one on for size. Do you own or possess any gold? (Don't answer - it's a rhetorical question.)

 

Imagine living in the USA in April of 1933. The Great Depression is going full guns. Times are tough but during the golden years prior to 29-OCT-1929 you managed to get a bit ahead and sock away a few gold coins "just in case". And then WHAM! Good old FDR (and back then you probably voted for him - most folks did) issues Presidential Executive Order 6102 ordering the confiscation of all privately held gold in excess of $100 in value from each and every US citizen. And PEO 6102 made it a felony crime punishable by up to 10 years in prison and/or a $10,000 fine for possessing in excess of $100 in gold. The order gave The People 30 days to comply.

 

Let me be clear - the President by Executive Order not only ordered the confiscation of personal property he made it a crime to possess said personal property. Last time I checked (I might be wrong) there's not a single word in Article II (The Presidency) of the US Constitution that authorizes the President to unilaterally confiscate anything from anyone absent a warrant "based upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized" (4th Amendment) or to create any law, let alone a felony criminal statute. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that that power is vested in the Congress pursuant to Article I (The Legislative Branch) of the US Constitution. Nor is there anything mentioned in Article II that authorizes the President to issue Executive Orders in order to create law if (s)he "can't wait for Congress to act."

 

But it was done for the "good of the people". Everyone needed to "pitch in and do their fair share." Ever heard that one before - maybe in recent times?

 

So much for your scraping a few gold coins together to sock them away for tough times. Thank you Mr. President.

 

Who needs a Constitution when we can just PFA laws because it feels right? That's progressive socalism at its finest. (PFA - pick from air)

 

 

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To add to the above relative to FDR specifically but also to progressive socialist "economics" in general, when FDR ordered all gold confiscated the market value was about $20.00/oz. in the US and worldwide as well. The President then artificially fixed the price at $35.00/oz.

 

Sounds great. The Treasury Department had confiscated all private gold (they did pay the $20/oz. price to the people so at least they gave lip service compliance to the 5th Amendment) and the new wonderful price was $35.00/oz...the Treasury is now rich according to progressive socialist economics. . Well, not really. What idiot is going to buy US gold at $35.00/oz. when they can buy it anywhere else at $20.00/oz? For the rest of the people who have a whit of common sense they can see the very obvious falacy here: the world price is $20.00, the US price is $35.00. This is an arbitrager's wet dream if they lived anywhere on the planet except the USA where citizens would go to prison if they tried to sell gold after May 1, 1933. Hock the house, the kids, the car, dog, pony and everything else you own and buy as much $20.00 gold as you can and then sell it to the US Treasury for $35.00/oz. There in the middle of the Great Depression our wonderful progressive socialist government crushed the US dollar. Our Treasury did have a lot of gold - couldn't get anyone to actually buy it but they had a lot of gold anchors, bookends and paperweights on hand. Smart economics.

 

This sort of economics sound familiar? It should because you're living it. And those people elected FDR not once, not twice, not even thrice. He was elected to the Presidency four times and only got out of office by leaving these mortal coils. Why did they elected him over and over? Because he "solved" the Great Depression with his brilliant economic policies. It only took from 1930 to 1945 to do it but it wasn't his economics. It was a little skirmish called WWII starting in 1938 and the Lend Lease Program that put America back to work.

 

In reallity, once the war was over we quickly discovered that the Great Depression hadn't ended. It was just postponed. It didn't actually end until 1960 - 30 years later. It took Jimmy Carter's progressive socialist economy and double digit inflation to get it back on track.

 

 

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You're correct. Given the specific scenario posed I said that the OP would have little chance of survival.

With respect to Russia and kissing their butts to make nice and play like we are friends, it isn't going to happen. Losing one's life to a fast neutron flux or losing one's liberty to the "peaceful progressive people's" socialism isn't much of a choice. One is quick death and the other is slow death.

Maybe on your time, Darby. But this is my time. I feel like Mr. Hand in that movie "Fast Times at Ridgemont High".

 

 

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Maybe on your time, Darby. But this is my time.".

Thank you!!!!

 

In just two sentences you have completely stated the case against progressive socialism. Brilliantly done.

 

I'm still here. You're still here. We're all still here. Therefore it is still "our time". Yet the progressive socialist insists that everyone else's time has come and gone and, even though they are a minority of opinion and numbers they desire to, and in many respects succeed in, cramming their agenda down the throats of everyone else whose time they deem to have come and gone even though the agenda is contrary to our best interests. Bat shit crazy egalitarianism designed to keep the poor poor and bring everyone else except the socialist elite down to that level so that everyone is absolutely equal: equally poor, equally miserable and equally cut out of the progressive socialist elites' power market. This is the case of progressive socialism today, as it was the case yesterday and the day before. Nothing has changed in that respect.

 

The progressive socialist sees the world from the perspective of, "Socialism is for the masses - not the socialist." That's why, for instance, the progressive socialists in Congress made damned sure that while the rest of us are stuck with Obama Care they will continue to have a seperate and wholly unequal medical insurance system. No waiting in line at the walk-in clinic for the socialist elite. We get the Volt and they get the Mercedes (I'd say Cadillac but they don't buy American luxury cars, not even Government Motors Corp. luxury cars.)

 

The 4th of July still has great significance for most of us. Declaring our independence from progressive socialism is the current revolution in America.

 

No, Thomas, this is not "your time". The Constitution is under serious attack and it is possible that it may well fall under the progressive socialist assault. But until that actually occurs it is still our time.

 

 

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Socialism has its known problems. One problem is giving people something for nothing. Capitalism also has its known problems. Greed being the main one. Communism and Monarchy should be stamped out. The only way to do that is to avoid revolution by treating the people fairly and giving them enough of the wealth to live on in exchange for an honest day's work. Another way to do that is to keep the wealthy from exploiting the non-wealthy through legal regulation. The U.S. is headed for revolution because it is failing to protect the worker and the wealthy have made what should be illegal into what is legal. They take our savings without our permission and gamble it away on the stock market. Then they take our taxes to cover their losses. Nobody goes to jail for it. They'll get the guns in a Communist takeover. They'll get the wealth and form their own Capitalist elite. Then they'll pass the guns and wealth to their sons in a Dynastic Monarchy. They'll then be too weak as a Monarchy because the idiot son can't keep it together. They'll be conquered by a more egalitarian nation. Yes. I love the U.S.A. and that is why I hate seeing it devolve into this. Republicans and Democrats don't defend the workers enough. Sure Unions are a bad way to protect working wages. Sure Unions protect people who should be fired or make too much money. But we can't depend on the government to protect workers when it is the corporate owners who control the government. And every worker should set aside a part of his or her paycheck for health insurance. We're already paying taxes for their uninsured hospital visits. It still accounts for 25% of all hospital expenses which drives up our own health care costs.

 

And Darby, that is why we always have argued in the past. You're a cold war true blue believer in Capitalism. I also believe in Capitalism but am quite aware of its evil side which must be regulated. And that regulation is by its very political nature Socialist. But calling myself a Socialist would lead to misunderstanding. I'm a Social Democrat. I believe in a real free market where the wealthy are kept from making illegal things legal. Corporate profits are at an all time high in 2012 yet the U.S. family is struggling at an average of $12.50 an hour. It was $14.00 in 2005. Is it any wonder the U.S. consumer and middle class has died.

 

 

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Socialism has its known problems. One problem is giving people something for nothing. Capitalism also has its known problems. Greed being the main one. Communism and Monarchy should be stamped out. The only way to do that is to avoid revolution by treating the people fairly and giving them enough of the wealth to live on in exchange for an honest day's work. Another way to do that is to keep the wealthy from exploiting the non-wealthy through legal regulation. The U.S. is headed for revolution because it is failing to protect the worker and the wealthy have made what should be illegal into what is legal. They take our savings without our permission and gamble it away on the stock market. Then they take our taxes to cover their losses. Nobody goes to jail for it. They'll get the guns in a Communist takeover. They'll get the wealth and form their own Capitalist elite. Then they'll pass the guns and wealth to their sons in a Dynastic Monarchy. They'll then be too weak as a Monarchy because the idiot son can't keep it together. They'll be conquered by a more egalitarian nation. Yes. I love the U.S.A. and that is why I hate seeing it devolve into this. Republicans and Democrats don't defend the workers enough. Sure Unions are a bad way to protect working wages. Sure Unions protect people who should be fired or make too much money. But we can't depend on the government to protect workers when it is the corporate owners who control the government. And every worker should set aside a part of his or her paycheck for health insurance. We're already paying taxes for their uninsured hospital visits. It still accounts for 25% of all hospital expenses which drives up our own health care costs.

And Darby, that is why we always have argued in the past. You're a cold war true blue believer in Capitalism. I also believe in Capitalism but am quite aware of its evil side which must be regulated. And that regulation is by its very political nature Socialist. But calling myself a Socialist would lead to misunderstanding. I'm a Social Democrat. I believe in a real free market where the wealthy are kept from making illegal things legal. Corporate profits are at an all time high in 2012 yet the U.S. family is struggling at an average of $12.50 an hour. It was $14.00 in 2005. Is it any wonder the U.S. consumer and middle class has died.

Socialism is the problem. Whether it is Soviet Marxist-Leninist Socialism, Hitler's NAZI National Socialism, Musollini's Facist Socialism, Progressive Socialism or Democratic Socialism. In the end each form of socialism comes down to a hard or a "soft" tyranny where the ruling oligarcy determines what is best for the collective people and the individual person be damned. In other words, regardless of the particular name one gives it socialism is just a form of collectivist repression of the individual. You're good just so long as you don't get out of line and make it known that you want to do for yourself and not the collective.

 

But there is an answer in America. Get the damned federal government out of our everyday lives and back where it is supposed to be - following the Constitution. The states can do just fine, under the 10th Amendment, taking care of their own citizens. Next, get rid of about 70% of all federal departments. There's not a single word in the Constitution that authorizes the federal government to be doing what those departments are involved in. And that includes the Departments of Labor, Health, Education, EPA and the rest.

 

Struggling as $12.50/hr? Why? Why are people struggling at $12.50/hr while the Democrats chant their mantra abut more money for schools? I'll tell you why Californians struggle. Over half, 52%, of the entire California State budget goes to the State Department of Education. And they have the gall to plead, cry and faint dead away on the street begging for more money for the schools. Two decades ago, ten years after the voters decided that Cakifornia home owners should not be required to shoulder the lion's share of the school budget by having their homes suffer the school tax, the Democrats came up with the California Lottery to "save the schools". They got their wish. What did they do with the new-found billions in funds via the Lottery? Took the tax money from the school budget, added in the Lottery money to the school budget and then cried, "We need more money for the schools. The Lottery didn't fix the problem." They were right. The Lottery didn't fix the problem. It became a part of the problem. But the socialists knew that they'd had their way because Californians will fall for the next piece of bait while the state legislature continues to expand the state budget and social programs - right up to the door of the Bankruptcy Court because California, the Socialist Republic, is broke. Flat broke. And they still want more because the "fix" is just a matter of tossing a few more quid at the problem. (The Constitution is the Constitution so we can't legally split California without the consent of the other states but boy, oh, boy would I love to split the Bay Area into it's own little state.)

 

Kids are screaming that they can't afford to pay back their college loans. To a large degree they should be, though they knew going in that when they took out the loan that they would not be able to pay it off on time. Why are their loans so big? Why is college so expensive? The US Department of Education, that's why. It's the good-old-boy socialist system. Today a college education costs X dollars. Kids get a US Dept of Education guaranteed loan. The college needs to build something thus needs more dollars. They raise the tuition and call the Dept of Education and "suggest" that the maximum amount for college loans be increased. Done. Now the kids get an even bigger loan. Re-cycle the above a few times and the California State University tuition ends up equalling the Harvard tuition. Oh, but kids are entitled to a college education. It's a human right, correct? Let's just forgive the loans because those evil bankers are gouging the students. Hotel Sierra. It's not a right, human or otherwise and the banks didn't gouge anyone. The US Dept of Education and the college and university administrations are the gougers. Banks are there to make money, not to be conduits for social democracy.

 

Thomas, I have been there and done that with the socialists. The philosophy sounds nice on paper but it is a scam. Western Europe is a living testiment to the scam. Anyone who voted for the current administration in Washington, DC is further testiment to how the scam works.

 

 

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I believe nobody should get anything for free including corporate socialists. Walmart gets our taxes for free. They didn't earn it. You want to get rid of socialism -- fine. Start with big business. I swear On my eternal soul my real name is John Thomas. You may call me J.T.

If you can point to the Constitution and show me where the federal government would be authorized to do this (get rid of big business - whatever that really means) then we can have the conversation.

 

I will give you one point - government give-aways to business or individuals is not covered in the Constitution as a federal power.

 

 

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Darby, are you doing anything to change these things?

Here, at least, I make posts, people read them and they ask questions. People like you. I also vote my philosophy and participate at the local level in my party.

 

As an example of voting my philosophy I have voted "No" on each and every school bond measure and every school budget increase measure for the past 15 years. Do I hate students and teachers? No. I've been both at one time or another. What I hate is government waste. California's schools are awash in funding. Unfortunately the same schools are awash in progresive socialist politics and the schools end up teaching anything but reading, writing, math and science. Lot's of money and even more students who have wasted 12 years of their lives in order to be technically illiterate. But they do know which hero of the people's socialist movement was responsible for X, Y & Z. Nice trivia but not so much so for getting a job.

 

I was "the government" 30 yeears of my life and was responsible for my unit's budget. Not once did I ever over draft my budget and every time I ended the year under budget - all the while getting everything my people needed to do their jobs. What's the single consistent criticism I received? Use it or lose it. Next year what you turn in this year will be absent from the budget. Fine with me because the budget was too big in the first place. Most buearucrats heed the criticism and go on a spending spree for unnecessary junk at the end of the year to protect their fiefdom.

 

 

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Here, at least, I make posts, people read them and they ask questions. People like you. I also vote my philosophy and participate at the local level in my party.

As an example of voting my philosophy I have voted "No" on each and every school bond measure and every school budget increase measure for the past 15 years. Do I hate students and teachers? No. I've been both at one time or another. What I hate is government waste. California's schools are awash in funding. Unfortunately the same schools are awash in progresive socialist politics and the schools end up teaching anything but reading, writing, math and science. Lot's of money and even more students who have wasted 12 years of their lives in order to be technically illiterate. But they do know which hero of the people's socialist movement was responsible for X, Y & Z. Nice trivia but not so much so for getting a job.

 

I was "the government" 30 yeears of my life and was responsible for my unit's budget. Not once did I ever over draft my budget and every time I ended the year under budget - all the while getting everything my people needed to do their jobs. What's the single consistent criticism I received? Use it or lose it. Next year what you turn in this year will be absent from the budget. Fine with me because the budget was too big in the first place. Most buearucrats heed the criticism and go on a spending spree for unnecessary junk at the end of the year to protect their fiefdom.

you raise a valid point. To some, ethics is just a fairy tale. Whats the u.s. Motto? United we stand, divided we fall. Whats so hard to understand? The world would be so much better iff everyoonne was like you. Sadly, they arent.

 

so whats the fix for that??

 

 

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you raise a valid point. To some, ethics is just a fairy tale. Whats the u.s. Motto? United we stand, divided we fall. Whats so hard to understand? The world would be so much better iff everyoonne was like you. Sadly, they arent.so whats the fix for that??

I'll only address the government waste side because it is more than a simple opinion.

 

Hiring practices for government employees has become two irksome things:

 

1) A way to extend the welfare state.

 

Give people government jobs, expand the government and then give more people government jobs. It sounds good up front; getting people a job. The backside, however, is your personal "backside" - "your" being the tax payer and persons charged with following the edicts of the government. Along the road to hiring ever more government employees the qualifications for the jobs have been eroded to the ridiculous. People are actually paid to provide job descriptions for each and every government job at every level of government. They generally do a good job. Someone else, however, comes along and writes the requirements to actually perform the job. Now comes the comedy. The requirements are written such that in far too many cases people are in no way qualified in the real world to do the job. But hired they are. And you, the tax payer, have to suffer their incompetence - lost checks when you pay your taxes, misfiled paperwork when you go down to find something important for a legal, personal or business purpose, employees who accrue one day of sick time per pay period and after 20 years of employment have no sick time on the books - which means, on average, they've never work a full 80 hour pay period in 20 years. I personally turned around a 13 year employee who, after working in three seperate departments, averaged 65 hours per 80 hour pay period. That's missing one day a week, week in and week out, for 13 years!And yes, I had a "gun" to the employee's head - the gun being the immenent possibility of being terminated. How had this been allowed to happen? Incompetent supervision while this employee was "growing up" in the organization. And this employee was not the worst in the organization - (s)he was just about average.

 

In many cases your average government employee is a mismatch for the job performed, lazy and could care less about service to the public.

 

The answer: reasonable requirements to get a government job that do not emtail political correctness. No one has a Constitutional, human or any other right to a government job. Government is not a workfare alternative to welfare as the progressive socialist would have you believe.

 

2) Government employee unions that do not answer to the employee union members, don't give a damned about the tax payers but care only about the progressive socialist establishment.

 

At one time I was involved in the decertification of an SEIU unit that represented my job class and forming a new collective bargining unit for my fellow employees (I was a bit farther down the food chain at that time). Public employee unions answer to the same elite that all other unions answer to especially if itis the SEIU. They make decisions to support political candidates without ever a hint of asking the rank and file what they desire. Have you ever seen an ad like this: "Five hundred Police Officers of the X Police Department support Y for Mayor"? The truth? Five to seven members of the Executive Board of Directors of the union support the candidate. They didn't ask the rank and file. It's a scam. In my case, as I became more vocal in the union and had garnered a wide and deep support base, my E-Board simply cut me out of the loop once I'd left office on the E-Board. Communication from the union leadership was transported via our "brown mail" system. Guess what? My brown mail, for five years, always seemed to arrive a few days after important meetings were held where decisions would be made. The E-Board knew that I would not support most of their positions, would ask a lot of pointed questions, demand direct answers and when all else failed use parliamentary procedures effectively to block their unilateral decisions. A couple of times of late notice of meetings and it was odd. Two years of the crap and it was a conspiracy. Five years and it was a bold message: don't attend "our" meetings - but do pay your dues. After five years it was actually moot because I'd to the administration level where I was no longer a part of the union represented line staff and supervisors.

 

Answer: Serious constraints on government unions. Government unions are not set up to be political support arms for candidates for office. But reality is no one will do the right thing and get the people who most stand to benefit from political elections, the union employees, out of the political process. Absent that, require that the E-Boards call for a vote of the membership to determine what, if any, candidates to support. And while we're on the subject o fgovernment unions, government employees should have no right to strike. Period. As it is, peace officers do not have the right to strike. The progressive socialist will not support this. When they are in dire need of something from the government while it is on strike they will just say, "Oh, well. Next month is OK." Sure they will. But if they don't have a personal need they'll let everyone else suffer for the collective.

 

 

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Man, you hit the nail on the head. While I read this, I kept asking myself, man, hhow do I fix this? MLK got killed with his way, and rosa parks changed a nation. A revolt isnt right, but neither is sitting here.our founding fathers had it right, a new nation of good people is the way, but even with the strictest system, sparta fell.

 

COMPUTING...

 

 

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*snipped first part*

I was "the government" 30 yeears of my life and was responsible for my unit's budget. Not once did I ever over draft my budget and every time I ended the year under budget - all the while getting everything my people needed to do their jobs. What's the single consistent criticism I received? Use it or lose it. Next year what you turn in this year will be absent from the budget. Fine with me because the budget was too big in the first place. Most buearucrats heed the criticism and go on a spending spree for unnecessary junk at the end of the year to protect their fiefdom.

Didn't the government way back when used to support themselves with separate jobs instead of what's going on now?

 

 

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Didn't the government way back when used to support themselves with separate jobs instead of what's going on now?

You're basically correct. There was a time not too long ago when elected officials didn't make the equivalent of a fulltime job salary. Today that's not so true even though the job itself may well still be less than a 40 hour work week.

 

 

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Man, you hit the nail on the head. While I read this, I kept asking myself, man, hhow do I fix this?

1) Stop voting for Democrats (esp. socialists who disguise their motives like Obama).

 

2) Vote ONLY for those Republicans or Independents who will re-commit themselves to the Constitution, and to dismantling the massive, money-wasting scam that is now our Federal Government apparatus. (I know you have made your opinions known about what you think Republicans/conservatives were about...they were merely your opinions, and they are simply not reflective of the truth...what Darby has been telling you is what a TRUE conservative wants to bring our FED GOV back to again)

 

3) Understand why the 2nd Amendment is so important to preventing the government from becoming a tyranny on your personal freedoms (again, we have had discussions in the past I know you think "guns are not necessary", but history clearly falsifies your belief...and understand what Obama/Hillary are currently planning with the UN to further erode our 2nd Amendment rights)

 

4) Do NOT vote for, and publicly "out" ANY politician who would cede our national sovereignty on ANYTHING to the UN.

 

5) Oppose the UN. They are a bigger waster and launderer of our money than the US FED GOV. And all they want to do is subjugate and bring down the strength of the USA so they can institute a "One World Government"...one which they, of course, would control.

 

6) Understand the scams the UN runs on people, and that they ARE scams....like Global Warming...why is it always pushed by governments and politicians, and NOT by massive numbers of scientists? Why are the most vocal scientists who champion Global Warning also getting massive funds from both governments and the UN?

 

7) Do whatever you must to continue your education (on the hard sciences, not the political BS that the social democrats want to "re-educate" you on). Darby, myself, and Thomas have unceasingly encouraged you to do this, but you always find an excuse why you can't, or won't, or invent some reason about how doing so would somehow be a moral corruption to your pureness of soul, or whatever. Cut that crap out....the ONLY way you can change the world is by continually educating yourself. To get a FIRM hold on the hard sciences, either you need to go to an accredited university, or if you have the $ pay someone like myself or Darby (if we have the time available) to teach you. BUT IT WILL NOT BE EASY...nothing worthwhile ever is.

 

You are a naturally intelligent person. I have ALWAYS told you that, despite our differences...and NEVER ONCE have I ceased to encourage you to acquire more education. NOT ONCE. As a teacher of higher education, I know things you do not, and I specifically know how to identify people with natural intelligence and abilities to make it as engineers, and being the professional in this area that I am, I know how to encourage and coach them to that end. But when they resist me, and make up excuses, there is nothing *I* can do to change them in that regard.

 

But of respect for you and the abilities I see in you, Carey, I pledge to you that I will NEVER treat you any differently from any of my other gifted students who I have helped graduate with their BS in Aerospace Engineering. You may find my methods harsh, or "not for you". In that regard, you are free to not avail yourself of my suggestions and coachings, and continue on your chosen life path. But I can put you in touch with SEVERAL of my former students who are now graduated, and some who are juniors and becoming seniors, who will tell you EXACTLY why my ass-kicking worked for them, and why they RESPECT what I did for them, as much as they kicked and screamed (like you) as they were going thru the process.

 

You asked. I offered my answer.

 

Ray

 

 

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