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The Ethics of Time Travel


Pacram
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I would like to share my views and opinions on the ethics of time travel and whether ultimately it is a goal humanity should aspire to achieve. To do this I have constructed a pros and cons table, my main goal of this thread is to get a debate rolling based on the ethical values and principles of Time Travel. I am curious as to people's ideas as I predict they will be quite measurably different.

 

Pros

 

* Unlocks ultimate knowledge explaining how life was up to the present

 

* Completely maps out all possible scientific discoveries for humankind

 

* Great teaching mechanism for students

 

* Ability to correct all mistakes and events that we desire, such as the holocaust

 

* Shortens the length of time between great scientific breakthroughs

 

* offers a view into the future and issues that will shape the future

 

Cons

 

* Creates a sluggish lazy civilization, this would occur because human kind ultimately knows everything and needs not try as their path is mapped out

 

* The rich hoard such time travel devices and shape the world to their views

 

* Political groups use these devices to manipulate the world and create a dystopia in which they see fit

 

* Quality of life and human existence is rendered non existent

 

* The prices of use of such machines would no doubly be exorbitantly high. This would create a finer line between economic classes and possibly lead to a rebellion between groups

 

* The country which creates the first time machine is theoretically holding a ticking time bomb, other countries if found out about such a discovery would fight with that country ultimately leading to a world war. This could end up with the destruction of the human race. ( Theoretically if the time machine was used and the future of human kind was witnessed this path should be seen, if not it could lead to speculation about a multiple reality theory)

 

* The affects of using the machine to traverse back into humanities past could alter the future of life for every being on earth. The judgement for such a change to be made would come down to a small radical group most likely, this group would not be acting in interest of humanity. Such changes for humanity cannot be made by singulars, this would be unethical, the choice comes down to the global populace.

 

* Our travel into the past could completely remove our future making human kind or even planet earth objects that never existed

 

* The effects of time travel could not only change the lives of the humans on earth but change trillions of possible lives across the universe

 

* A recession or economical crash could occur sending humanity into another dark age, possibly worse than the Wall Street crash in 1921

 

* The answers to all have been found and humans have no desire to continue on

 

* The future is seen and it is quite horrific, this would be similar to telling a person up they are going to die and when, mass panic would set in and humanity would become uncivil to say the least.

 

As you could imagine the list could quite literally extend for a fair few pages, I've summed up m major concerns and issues within this topic. I would now like to hear the ideas from users of the forum.

 

 

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Pacram,

 

Your preparedness is impressive this time.

 

However, your use of universals, which I have emboldened,

 

reflects your propensity for overstatement in the quote below:

 

Pros

 

* Unlocks ultimate knowledge explaining how life was up to the present

 

* Completely maps out all possible scientific discoveries for humankind

 

* Great teaching mechanism for students

 

* Ability to correct all mistakes and events that we desire, such as the holocaust

 

* Shortens the length of time between great scientific breakthroughs

 

* offers a view into the future and issues that will shape the future

 

In regard to the sentence fragment underlined above,

 

I recently stated my belief God alone can make good of bad

 

(He borrows human hands toward that end).

 

Similarly, the reason I do not fret about the cons herein:

 

While God is infinitely good, Satan is not infinitely evil.

 

Peace be with you.

 

 

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Uhu and god exists. Fairies wander the earth and unicorns fly through rainbows. I'm sorry if I come across as rude but why do humans revert back to religion. Putting faith into a mystical being Is ludicrous. As a man of intelligence why do you believe in such a figure, I'm very fascinated by how people believe in god.

 

Honestly explain as I've never understood why people believe, I do have knowledge of religion and have studied the catholic faith as thoroughly as possible.

 

 

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DELETED : Pacram’s mention of Catholicism.

 

Faith in a benevolent God not only affords me peace

 

but lets me to joyously be humble. Foremost, to be

 

purposeful, I must believe good will prevail. Nothing

 

else really matters.

 

I was Catholic until the anti-pope, the first to 'retire'

 

(be retired) in 600 years, revealed his true master

 

by promoting global taxation* one yule season. Did his

 

retirement rid the Church of infiltration by the satanic

 

NWO? A miracle pends.

 

That is to say that, while I remain spiritual, I am no

 

longer religious. Yet, neither am I any less grateful for

 

the catechism, teachings in wisdom. Beyond that I'd

 

have sooner had Christ rid us forevermore of

 

the money changers against whom he once raged,

 

Cleansing of the Temple - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Ecclesiastes is as timeless today as when the book was

 

written.

 

I, in this world of opposites, choose to take what is

 

good and reject the rest as sheer folly--

 

vanity.

 

*CARITAS IN VERITATE

 

"Caritas in veritate" - Encyclical Letter of His Holiness Benedict XVI

 

After feigning that the wealthy won’t control redistribution via

 

carbon taxes, his unholiness claimed “[...]What is also needed,

 

though, is a worldwide redistribution of energy resources, so that

 

countries lacking those resources can have access to them.” To

 

believe those so "lacking" thereby stand to gain, is to lack a brain.

 

 

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Faith in a benevolent God not only affords me peacebut blesses me to joyously be humble. Foremost, to be

 

purposeful, I must believe good will prevail. Nothing

 

else really matters.

 

I was Catholic until the anti-pope, the first to 'retire'

 

(be retired) in 600 years, revealed his true master

 

by promoting global taxation* one yule season. Did his

 

retirement rid the Church of infiltration by the satanic

 

NWO? A miracle pends.

 

That is to say that, while I remain spiritual, I am no

 

longer religious. Yet, neither am I any less grateful for

 

the catechism, teachings in wisdom. Beyond that I'd

 

have sooner had Christ rid us forevermore of

 

the money changers against whom he once raged,

 

Cleansing of the Temple - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Ecclesiastes is as timeless today as when the book was

 

written.

 

I, in this world of opposites, choose to take what is

 

good and reject the rest as sheer folly--

 

vanity.

 

*CARITAS IN VERITATE

 

"Caritas in veritate" - Encyclical Letter of His Holiness Benedict XVI

 

After feigning that the wealthy won’t control redistribution via

 

carbon taxes, his unholiness claimed “[...]What is also needed,

 

though, is a worldwide redistribution of energy resources, so that

 

countries lacking those resources can have access to them.” To

 

believe those so "lacking" thereby stand to gain, is to lack a brain.

Can someone please explain this to me in plain English?

 

 

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DELETED : Pacram’s exaltation of man.

 

Pacram,

 

Man, absurdly egotistical, is mostly just pathetic.

 

How else can he deny his spirit inspiration, and

 

expect to "completely map[...] out all possible

 

scientific discoveries for humankind"?

 

My kind? I, though fond of discovery, do not

 

worship science. It alone neither defines me nor,

 

much less, human potential.

 

What is ultimate knowledge to one whose life is

 

but a blink of an eye in eternity? Hasn't the culture

 

of death dampened your delight in discovery? Why

 

else would you view it more in terms of cons than

 

pros?

 

 

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Pacram,

Man, absurdly egotistical, is mostly just pathetic.

 

How else can he deny his spirit inspiration, and

 

expect to "completely map[...] out all possible

 

scientific discoveries for humankind"?

 

My kind? I, though fond of discovery, do not

 

worship science. It alone neither defines my nor,

 

much less, the whole of human potential.

 

What is ultimate knowledge to one whose life is

 

but a blink of an eye in eternity? Hasn't the culture

 

of death dampened your delight in discovery? Why

 

else would you view it more in terms of cons than

 

pros?

No seriously, what the hell are talking about?

 

 

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Can someone please explain this to me in plain English?

This discussion went from faith to global taxation.

 

Have you not heard of the IMF? Do you not know

 

that the Fed is neither governmental nor accountable?

 

Interconnected, the latter will rob us with inflation

 

until the other is in position to enslave the planet by

 

means of extortion.

 

 

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This discussion went from faith to global taxation.Have you not heard of the IMF? Do you not know

 

that the Fed is neither governmental nor accountable?

 

Interconnected, the latter will rob us with inflation

 

until the other is in position to enslave the planet by

 

means of extortion.

So it's all a Jewish Illuminati conspiracy to steal our money? That's basically what I'm getting out of your statement.

 

 

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No seriously, what the hell are talking about?

I was addressing Pacram.

 

He first brought up economical woes.

 

He claims to have faith in humanity--

 

in the scientific community,

 

which is highest paid to apply themselves

 

and all discoveries toward weaponry.

 

Otherwise, he would not forebode:

 

"The future is seen and it is quite horrific."

 

I, on the other hand, believe life

 

is for more than living nightmares.

 

Existence is layered.

 

Where spirit soars,

 

evil cannot go.

 

There is where I hope to meet time travelers.

 

 

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So it's all a Jewish Illuminati conspiracy to steal our money? That's basically what I'm getting out of your statement.

It's about world dominion by a few charlatans

 

with a knack for getting their puppets in positions of power.

 

Now that monopolies are multinational conglomerations,

 

corporatists can push evil agendas 24/7.

 

But, as what goes around comes around,

 

it will back fire on them eventually.

 

By then, at least, better folks will finally be free.

 

 

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Here is my rebuttal, I do not believe in god because it provides false hope. I find great solace In knowing that their is no god and knowing that there is no plan for humans or even any organic, by sheer happen stance we exist in this wonderful universe. Doesn't it excite you knowing there is so much mystery, so much chance for anything. I like thinking that life is not planned and that nothing is certain, knowing a god existed i would not cope, Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

 

 

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DELETED : Pacram’s sincere feelings.

 

Most people, who do not wish to believe in God,

 

do not want to live in fear of judgment.

 

It is a matter of motivation.

 

I am more motivated by love than fear*.

 

So, as it is mostly a matter of our striving to be as patient

 

and loving, kind, as possible toward one another,

 

it is easier to serve good than to be ruled by evil.

 

I believe you a good person,

 

but, with so much wickedness in the world,

 

there is temptation at every turn

 

to lead one astray.

 

I continue to pray,

 

"May the Lord be with you."

 

Peace.

 

*

 

"Fear can stop you loving

 

Love can stop your fear

 

Fear can stop you loving

 

But it's not always that clear"--

 

Morcheeba - "Fear And Love" | Listen on Youtube and get on Itunes

 

 

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Pros

 

* Unlocks ultimate knowledge explaining how life was up to the present

 

Agreed

 

* Completely maps out all possible scientific discoveries for humankind

 

Agreed

 

* Great teaching mechanism for students

 

Probably not - see your #1 above. There's really nothing left to teach.

 

* Ability to correct all mistakes and events that we desire, such as the holocaust

 

Correct what? The events lay in the time traveler's affective past (past light cone). Any changes change the present "recollection" of history. How would anyone know what to change? Anyone with the technology at any time (and that means forever), can always go back and "change the changes." Remember, not everyone agreed that the holocaust was bad. Most certainly not the Nazi's and likewise the Stalinists. Who decides what are the mistakes?

 

Last, something horrible happened in the past. Someone goes back and "fixes" it. OK. Now ask yourself, if the fix is in, how is it that someone remembered the horrible event? It didn't happen. "The fix" is the memory brought forward by history.

 

* Shortens the length of time between great scientific breakthroughs

 

There would be no breakthroughs. There would be nothing to discover. With a time machine all knowledge is available at all points in history.

 

* offers a view into the future and issues that will shape the future

 

It doesn't. It offers the opportunity to constantly change history at will. The term "history" would probably never be a term used in any lexicon.

 

Cons

 

* Creates a sluggish lazy civilization, this would occur because human kind ultimately knows everything and needs not try as their path is mapped out

 

They wouldn't be lazy. Lazy implies work to be done but left undone. There would be no work to do.

 

* The rich hoard such time travel devices and shape the world to their views

 

What "rich people"? Everyone would have complete knowledge of all possible technologies. There would be no economy because economics is dependent on markets; markets depend to some extent on uncertainty. The time travel society would only know the present. The past is subject to change on a whim by anyone at any time. And how does anyone hoard the technology? From their POV it has always been there and always will be there. It has forever to find its way into everyone's hands. Everyone means everyone who exists, will exist and has existed. It's a time machine!

 

* Political groups use these devices to manipulate the world and create a dystopia in which they see fit

 

Frankly, why would they bother? Someone else can always undo whatever they manipulated.

 

* Quality of life and human existence is rendered non existent

 

Probably

 

* The prices of use of such machines would no doubly be exorbitantly high. This would create a finer line between economic classes and possibly lead to a rebellion between groups

 

Probably not. It would be a common piece of technology given that it had forever to find its way into public hands (not to mention that in certain scenarios the time machine can self create itself ad infinitum).

 

* The country which creates the first time machine is theoretically holding a ticking time bomb, other countries if found out.. [snip]

 

Who would bother to "invent" something that has always existed and always will exist? It's a time machine! It can pop into existence any time and any place.

 

* The affects of using the machine to traverse back into humanities past could alter the future of life for every being on earth [snip]

 

It would alter all of history - but no one would be aware of it. It happened in the past. Your recollection of past events would be...well...nonexistent. History as we view the term would not exist.

 

* Our travel into the past could completely remove our future making human kind or even planet earth objects that never existed

 

No. The laws of physics won't change because some society has time machines.

 

* The effects of time travel could not only change the lives of the humans on earth but change trillions of possible lives across the universe

 

Maybe.

 

* A recession or economical crash could occur sending humanity into another dark age, possibly worse than the Wall Street crash in 1921

 

Not likely. They have time machines! They can pack up and leave.

 

* The answers to all have been found and humans have no desire to continue on

 

Ehhh. Probably not. Life with time machines would be the norm, not the exception.

 

* The future is seen and it is quite horrific, this would be similar to telling a person up they are going to die and when, mass panic would set in and humanity would become uncivil to say the least.

 

Why would they see it as horrible? They can change it. Anyone can change it - at any time past or future. They have time machines!

 

Your analysis is pretty typical of what we've seen here over the years. We have a time travel related forum but when people analyze the situation they seem to forget that in the scenario the people under analysis have time machines! If we're going to look at a scenario it's probably helpful to fully account for what it means to have a time machine and how such a society's view of reality is greatly altered from ours. They would not view the world through our eyes. Their view of logic wouldn't even come close to our view. The first thing for us to toss out is the idea of "altering history." History for us is something that we know about the past. It is fixed and it effects the present in a way that logically flows from those events. If the past is mutable, and not only mutable but mutable at will and an infinite number of times, it means that memory of the past is irrelevant - probably non-existent. But certainly not important. Who would bother to trust a memory when they know that it is always changing?

 

 

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Most people, who do not wish to believe in God,do not want to live in fear of judgment.

 

It is a matter of motivation.

 

I am more motivated by love than fear*.

 

So, as it is mostly a matter of our striving to be as patient

 

and loving, kind, as possible toward one another,

 

it is easier to serve good than to be ruled by evil.

 

I believe you a good person,

 

but, with so much wickedness in the world,

 

there is temptation at every turn

 

to lead one astray.

 

I continue to pray,

 

"May the Lord be with you."

 

Peace.

 

*

 

"Fear can stop you loving

 

Love can stop your fear

 

Fear can stop you loving

 

But it's not always that clear"--

 

Morcheeba - "Fear And Love" | Listen on Youtube and get on Itunes

Here is my rebuttal, I do not believe in god because it provides false hope. I find great solace In knowing that their is no god and knowing that there is no plan for humans or even any organic, by sheer happen stance we exist in this wonderful universe. Doesn't it excite you knowing there is so much mystery, so much chance for anything. I like thinking that life is not planned and that nothing is certain, knowing a god existed i would not cope, Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

>>The Premiere Online Debate Website | Debate.org

 

Please take your argument here. You're annoying us pseudoscientists with your religion/anti-religion bullcrap. This is a forum on time travel.

 

 

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>>The Premiere Online Debate Website | Debate.org

Please take your argument here. You're annoying us pseudoscientists with your religion/anti-religion bullcrap. This is a forum on time travel.

I didn't bother to look at the above URL.

 

Go where you will, I'll do as I please.

 

Pacram started this thread.

 

He, in a separate discussion,

 

invited me to comment herein, i.e.

 

I wrote,

 

"[...]I look forward to reading your posts."

 

He replied,

 

"In that case head over to my " Ethics" thread."

 

Other communications overlapped with this one.

 

Pardon us.

 

No one forced you to follow our conversation.

 

You could have politely ignored our exchange.

 

Yet, you interrupted it before Pacram

 

had a chance to reply.

 

Then, before awaiting an answer from me,

 

you posted again, which,

 

because I was answering your posts successively,

 

gave the erroneous impression of my being short with you.

 

No offense was intended on my part, whereas your rudeness

 

confirms an observation previously made by me at this forum.

 

All,

 

Again, one unauthorized to dictate whether or not others

 

may mention God, in effect, tries to play Him.

 

 

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Pacram et al,

 

Were it the first time Troy had purposely been disruptive,

 

I'd sooner forget it. Apparently, he was angry after his

 

having failed to hijack "Willing to be a Guinea Pig."

 

After his having similarly been fractious therein, next he,

 

in #27, wrote

 

"I don't understand why people think early time travel

 

experiments will involve sending humans through[,]"

 

Willing to be a guinea pig | Page 2 | Time Travel Institute

 

i.e. Troy tried to steer participants to his pet thread.

 

Time Travel With Computer Data/Early Time Travel Technology (Speculation Thread) | Time Travel Institute

 

*Shrug*

 

I viewed the topic incidental, because my time travel

 

has been per chance (unplanned and by no known

 

mechanism). Besides, who was to stop Tesla from nearly

 

electrocuting himself in his attempts to time travel?

 

All,

 

More on the intended topic:

 

My sole interest in places otherworldly

 

is owing to my desire to transcend evil.

 

 

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Pacram,

 

I would like to politely ask that you cease in the practice of posting and then deleting posts. It disturbs the natural back and forth flow of a discussion thread, and in some forums such practice is looked upon as anti-social. As Admin I am able to go back and read the posts you have deleted, and I have seen nothing in them that is offensive or otherwise in need of deletion. Just let the conversation flow, and let the record stand.

 

Thanks,

 

RMT

 

 

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