Einstein Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 http://uncnews.unc.edu/2014/09/23/carolinas-laura-mersini-houghton-shows-black-holes-exist/ Chapel Hill, N.C. – Sept. 23, 2014) Black holes have long captured the public imagination and been the subject of popular culture, from Star Trek to Hollywood. They are the ultimate unknown – the blackest and most dense objects in the universe that do not even let light escape. And as if they weren’t bizarre enough to begin with, now add this to the mix: they don’t exist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Ha! I saw the counter-point to this on reddit today and immediately thought of you. Here's the other end of the argument that was posted: https://briankoberlein.com/2014/09/25/yes-virginia-black-holes/ Recent headlines have proclaimed “Black Holes Don’t Exist!” They’re wrong. Black holes absolutely exist. We know this observationally. We know by the orbits of stars in the center of our galaxy that there is a supermassive black hole in its center. We know of binary black hole systems. We’ve found the infrared signatures of more than a million black holes. We know of stellar mass black holes, and intermediate mass black holes. We can even see a gas cloud ripped apart by the intense gravity of a black hole. And we can take images of black holes, such as the one above. Yes, Virginia, there are black holes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 i suppose there will be lots of mud slinging back and forth now. I've always claimed you can't manufacture facts from fiction. But you can debunk fiction with facts. Anyway, with no black holes to power John Titor's time machine, I can now say the John Titor story is now officially debunked! Again! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seivtcho Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Weren't there a black hole, which was found in the space? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 Weren't there a black hole, which was found in the space? There are lots of opinions by astronomers that they think they are looking at Black Holes. But all their claimed evidence is indirect and could be explained away with more concrete fact based explanations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzie Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Seems kind of like MIT proving that a bumblebee can't fly (or was that study just an urban legend?). In other news, the study Einstein refers to is from UNC Chapel Hill. Go Heels!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seivtcho Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 UNC Chapel Hill according to google is specialized in medicine and law. Have they good physicists and cosmologists? Can they be trusted if this is not their main field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzie Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 UNC Chapel Hill according to google is specialized in medicine and law. Have they good physicists and cosmologists? Can they be trusted if this is not their main field? You can trust a Tarheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seivtcho Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Abstracting from the fact, that they are "Tarheel", what makes you believe them for the non existence of a mathematically calculated, theoretically suggested and more than one such objects found in the space, observed more than once? They are doctors and lawyers. I would trust them if they find a new way for treating cancer for example. But for the black holes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulaJedi Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I would like to see a peer review of the find - Hawking, Kaku, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IroncladMarshmallow Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Black holes are the perfect thing for lazy people who want to be respected and placed on a pedestal without doing anything at all. When was the last time a black hole expert made some amazing device with their knowledge? When did they contribute to world peace, end hunger, or make transportation easier and faster? Or maybe something like building a new power source to practically replace oil? What I see is a few people who write a few books and are basically set for life, without having really done anything at all. And that's regardless of whether black holes exist or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted September 28, 2014 Author Share Posted September 28, 2014 Here is an interesting read by someone else that has their own opinion about Black Holes. http://milesmathis.com/black.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzie Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Abstracting from the fact, that they are "Tarheel", what makes you believe them for the non existence of a mathematically calculated, theoretically suggested and more than one such objects found in the space, observed more than once? They are doctors and lawyers. I would trust them if they find a new way for treating cancer for example. But for the black holes? Haha, no I don't think they've disproven black holes, but it's an interesting study as I mentioned. Also, I'm just displaying some "team pride" in my enthusiasm for UNC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 Haha, no I don't think they've disproven black holes, but it's an interesting study as I mentioned. Also, I'm just displaying some "team pride" in my enthusiasm for UNC. They never proved Black Holes existed in the first place. All they have is a silly math equation. If that's all it takes to create reality, think of all the other math equations that only need be written down on paper. Get rich equation, personal harem equation, new car equation, new house equation, God equation, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulaJedi Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 They never proved Black Holes existed in the first place. All they have is a silly math equation. All they have is a silly math equation to disprove it, too, so why do you believe one over the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 All they have is a silly math equation to disprove it, too, so why do you believe one over the other? Because we are dealing with reality. Reality is not based on belief. It's based on facts. Facts are verifiable. And it is a fact that no direct observation of a Black Hole exists. The concept of belief may be fine for religion. But it has no place in science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulaJedi Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Because we are dealing with reality. Reality is not based on belief. It's based on facts. Facts are verifiable. And it is a fact that no direct observation of a Black Hole exists.The concept of belief may be fine for religion. But it has no place in science. It's still a belief if you haven't experienced it yourself. Have you been to space to verify that there are no black holes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 It's still a belief if you haven't experienced it yourself. Have you been to space to verify that there are no black holes? It's not a belief for me. It's just hilarious entertainment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seivtcho Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 What proofs they give for the non - existence of the black holes after all? In brief... mathematical or something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 What proofs they give for the non - existence of the black holes after all? In brief... mathematical or something else? It's a mathematical description showing that the mass of the star undergoing collapse will radiate away as energy rather than collapse into a black hole. And there is direct observation of stars that go Nova that exhibit this kind of behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seivtcho Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 So... mathematical proof for the existence of the black holes is not correct, but mathematical disproof of its existence is correct. Why? There are direct observations of Novas, but there are also observations of black holes. Novas and Super Novas so far coexisted without problems with the black holes, as far, as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 There is no direct observation of a black hole. All the observed data is indirect and being interpreted as if a black hole were present. Because of this indirect method used, alternate fact based interpretations could be used instead. The mathematical disproof is more readily accepted as a description of phenomena that we have observed. Such as a star going Nova. In the latter example the phenomena came before the math. So the math is merely modeling a phenomena already observed to exist. Not so with black holes. The math came first. So it was fiction right from the start. I could mathematically describe the orbit of a purple polka dotted pink elephant orbiting Ganymede. Do you honestly think that will come into existence just because I have the math for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seivtcho Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Black holes can't be observed directly, because of their nature. They are not letting any sort of particle or energy out. It seems, that some ship will have to go to the nearest black hole to prove or disprove once and for all if black holes exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IroncladMarshmallow Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Making a black hole is easy: 1. Dig hole in dirt with a shovel 2. Fill hole with black paint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulaJedi Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I'll just say it again because I have to remove the "send email" option from this topic, lol, but I think that assuming the equation disproving black holes applies to every single super nova is a bit presumptuous. But what do I know? I'm not a scientist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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