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The Mandela Effect


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Recent discussions have referred to the Mandela Effect and alternate realities. I believe this phenomenon is more memory related, not evidence of altered realities, remembered only by a few, never-the-less, a vocal few.

 

Prisoner number: 220/82

 

28 February 1985: Goldberg is released

 

5 November 1987: Mbeki is released from Robben Island

 

12 August 1988: Taken to Tygerberg Hospital where TB is diagnosed

 

31 August 1988: Transferred to Constantiaberg MediClinic

 

7 December 1988: Transferred to Victor Verster Prison

 

https://www.nelsonmandela.org/content/page/prison-timeline

 

Mandela Reported Suffering From Tuberculosis

 

August 17, 1988|SCOTT KRAFT | Times Staff Writer

 

JOHANNESBURG, South Africa — Nelson R. Mandela, the 70-year-old jailed black nationalist leader, has contracted tuberculosis and had been ill for days and coughing up blood when he was taken to a Cape Town hospital last week, his attorney said Tuesday.

 

"He's very thin. He's on his feet, but very suddenly he looks very old," the lawyer, Ismail Ayob, said after seeing his client Tuesday morning.

 

Two days earlier, doctors at Tygerberg Hospital, where Mandela is being treated in a wing reserved for blacks, said he had only a chronic lung inflammation and was recovering well.

 

Dr. J. G. L. Strauss, the hospital superintendent, refused Tuesday night to say whether Mandela had tuberculosis, a highly contagious airborne virus that usually affects the lungs.

 

"We stick by what Mandela has authorized us to say," Strauss said.

 

Asked whether Mandela's life is in danger, Ayob said, "I can't say until we get permission for our own doctors to see him." He said he learned of the diagnosis from one of the hospital's doctors.

 

Tuberculosis is a growing problem in this country, with more than 55,000 cases reported annually, according to the South Africa National Tuberculosis Assn. About 3,000 people die every year here of the disease.

 

Mandela's sudden illness, after more than 26 years in prison, could present the white minority-led government with one of its most serious crises in many months, perhaps forcing South Africa to release the black leader soon on humanitarian grounds.

 

Mandela, serving a life sentence for sabotage and conspiracy to overthrow the government, has become an international symbol of black resistance to apartheid. He is the leader of the outlawed African National Congress, the principal guerrilla group fighting the South African government.

 

Neglect Charged

 

Earlier Tuesday, the ANC issued a statement from its headquarters in Lusaka, Zambia, accusing the government of "callous neglect" in treating Mandela.

 

The statement said the ANC was "reliably informed that before hospitalization (Mandela) was lying in bed, unable to eat and exercise, and had difficulties of speech for a whole week. Although the prison authorities were obviously aware that he was ill, nothing was done."

 

However, the South African Prisons Department, in a statement late Tuesday, said Mandela's illness, which it did not specify, was treated promptly. It said Mandela became ill July 28 and was seen by doctors in his prison cell regularly.

 

Mandela's family, including his wife, Winnie, appealed to President Pieter W. Botha through a family spokesman Tuesday to allow its own team of doctors to see the patient. Botha did not immediately respond.

 

On Sunday, the government said Mandela had undergone minor surgery Saturday to drain fluid from his left lung. It was Mandela's first foray outside prison walls since 1982.

 

After seeing her husband Tuesday, Winnie Mandela was surrounded by hundreds of patients and hospital staff. She raised her fist in a black power salute as black and mixed-race patients shouted "Viva Mandela!"

 

(could this be the source of the memory; "... they have memories of Winnie Mandela's insincere tribute; they have clear memories of the oddly shaped headed body guard of Winnie Mandela etc." Milo.X. referred to?)

 

http://timetravelinstitute.com/threads/retrocausality-and-the-effects-on-a-timeline.10457/#post-89771

 

The racially segregated hospital is being guarded by police and the fourth floor, where Mandela's room is located, has been sealed off.

 

Pressure Builds for Release

 

International pressure for the black leader's release has been building in recent weeks among supporters as well as opponents of the government. Government officials have acknowledged that Mandela's death in jail would likely make him a martyr and trigger uncontrolled violence among angry blacks. But the government also fears that Mandela's release could result in similar civil uprisings.

 

As recently as July 29, his attorney was telling reporters that Mandela was in excellent health and good spirits. Mandela, now gray-haired, had been riding an exercise bicycle for hours each morning and had the taut skin of a man much younger than his years, Ayob said.

 

But "it is clear that his condition has been deteriorating for some time," Ayob said Tuesday. When Mandela was taken to the hospital, he was unable to speak and was spitting up blood, Ayob said Mandela told him.

 

No Answers

 

Ayob, speaking with reporters upon his return to Johannesburg, said a doctor had given him and Winnie Mandela the diagnosis. The doctor refused to answer Mrs. Mandela's questions, Ayob said.

 

Tuberculosis is a severe problem in South Africa. It is especially prevalent among the country's 26 million blacks, doctors say, because they live in poorly ventilated, overcrowded homes where it easily spreads.

 

Of the 57,457 new cases of tuberculosis reported in South Africa in 1986, for example, 43,000 were cured and 3,100--slightly more than 5%--died. South Africa's health care is generally highly regarded internationally.

 

Johannesburg Bureau Assistant Mike Cadman contributed to this article.

 

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-08-17/news/mn-467_1_winnie-mandela

 

(italics and emphasis mine)

 

Other than... many people misremember the news... most probably, from getting their news 2nd hand, 3rd hand, or from a friend of my nephew's friend's girlfriend's aunt's brother, that said..."Yea, he died...!"

 

there is probably little more I need say.

 

Although, I was very surprised when I heard the President was shot and killed in Dallas, Texas, back in 1963. I remember because I shouted, "What! Nixon dead? Noooo...!" Then I was told, "No, not Nixon, John F. Kennedy". I replied, "Kennedy? I though he was killed on a PT boat back in WWII."

 

Now... If I can get that story out on the internet, how long do you think it will be before a bunch of other people jump on the band wagon and say,"Yea...That's right...That's what I remember too..."?

 

 

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Now... If I can get that story out on the internet, how long do you think it will be before a bunch of other people jump on the band wagon and say,"Yea...That's right...That's what I remember too..."?

It depends if the story goes along with popular beliefs and how long you push the story for. Reagan and Thatcher back in the 1980s where actually pretty unpopular. Reagan racked up the debt more then any other President before him, lied worse then Nixon but always managed to land on his feet. Somehow Reagan and Thatcher are now seen as popular leaders, and somehow both have become fiscally responsible.

 

How this happened is a great mystery.

 

 

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There's actually a post I want to make on this, but I'm one of the "vocal few" who have experienced the mandela effect first hand. I do believe that some sort of alternate past thing is going on. Feel free to ask me anything. Just some random stuff I've observed: landmasses moving, video content being changed, game designs changing, words/linguistics changing, along with some other stuff. It's absolutely bizarre.

 

 

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There's actually a post I want to make on this, but I'm one of the "vocal few" who have experienced the mandela effect first hand. I do believe that some sort of alternate past thing is going on. Feel free to ask me anything. Just some random stuff I've observed: landmasses moving, video content being changed, game designs changing, words/linguistics changing, along with some other stuff. It's absolutely bizarre.

Go ahead and make your post. I first came across this phenomenon (now commonly referred to as the "Mandela Effect") some years ago, after reading about somebody who experienced it.

 

What have you personally experienced, that makes you think that the "past" you lived is now different from what the past that the vast amount of people have lived?

 

 

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Go ahead and make your post. I first came across this phenomenon (now commonly referred to as the "Mandela Effect") some years ago, after reading about somebody who experienced it.

I've actually been procrastinating on this. I was originally planning on posting in the "I am a time traveler" forum, but it didn't feel right (since I don't claim to be one). The "mandela effect" is really a better term for it, but I'm not fond of it being named after a specific event that I really have no relation to. Either way, it certainly describes my experiences (things in the past 'changing', and other people noticing the same 'changes').

 

What have you personally experienced, that makes you think that the "past" you lived is now different from what the past that the vast amount of people have lived?

Well the first thing I noticed is something I can't really get any confirmation on, because it's more of an obscure thing in terms of people who are aware of this stuff. It's a particular older SNES video game, which has seemingly gone from 2 players (like the rest of the versions of the game) to only 1 player. Baffling, since I don't recall playing any other versions, but I distinctly remember the version I had being 2 players (which is why I looked it up and found out it was different in the first place). This is an intensely personal memory that was a large part of my childhood. Up until I had read about the mandela effect, I held the idea that MY copy was some sort of dev version or something (given my grandparents ran a game shop). I still haven't gotten my hands on an SNES to check my personal copy.

 

Another video game related one, is a particular promotional video (for Team Fortress 2, if you're familiar with it) had some of the lines changed, and some of the emphasis changed. The video had quickly spawned a meme, with many people repeating it. However, from the time of the video's release, to now, as I said, it had changed to not be what I'm familiar with. This one I was willing to accept that I may had misremembered. Still worth noting the difference.

 

One particular big one is the location of Japan. A country I'm all too familiar with. It's current location really seems off to me. From what I recall, it should be much further south. Directly east of china, with south korea being next to hokkaido. If you check it's current position, its much further north than that. This has bothered me ever since I noticed it.

 

Australia should be a bit further south, not bunched up next to a bunch of islands. And the gulf of carpentaria wasn't there either. New Zealand was a bit further north rather than in it's current south-east position.

 

One particular change I didn't notice until I had run into the mandela effect was the old children's books "Berenstein Bears". I remember them named exactly like that, and even made the mistake of pronouncing it "steen". However, checking it now, it's Berenstain Bears (with an 'a').

 

A particularly infamous feminist youtuber, Anita Sarkeesian has a series on tropes about women in gaming. However, some of the video content had changed upon my second viewing. I distinctly remember her going on about a particular scene in Metroid: Other M, which was one of my primary disagreements with the video. However, the content does not appear in any of her videos. And instead, there appears to be an added clip of her going over her own game design (which is something I had previously commented she should do if she has problems with current game development/design).

 

Those are the main ones I'm aware of and have noticed. Many of those have other individuals also remembering the same things (though a few of them are my own personal observations).

 

I do believe these things are indeed the past that I've personally experienced. I've always had a good memory, and many of these topics/things are particularly noteworthy for me (to not know where Japan is would be crazy). It's very clear to me that what I've described is the past. As much as any other thing in the past, like 9/11, the release of the Nintendo DS, where Russia is, and other quite common sense stuff. Which is why when I see these "changes" they stand out like a sore thumb. I can't say whether it's 'really' an alternate past, or whether there's something screwy going on, but as I've noted in my introductory post, everything I write here I hold as 100% true. These things certainly did change for me. And certainly other users can attest to these changes. Out of them all, the 2player SNES game, and the location of Japan are the two "shocking" ones for me. Since those are the ones I've known to be true my entire life and are parts of my life that I'd know better than anything else.

 

Am I going crazy? Did the world change? Did I somehow shift timelines? I really don't know. Unfortunately there's no real way to prove any of this, and by the nature of these things, any amount of checking older references/materials, asking others (you tend to get a mix of responses), etc. isn't going to clarify anything. It sounds crazy until you actually have it happen. I can go into more specifics on any of the above, if you'd like. But I think I've written out most of it.

 

There's a ton of other stuff that I've noticed after reading a few other users' comments on the things that changed. Some I agree with, some I disagree. Some of it I'd easily accept as a false memory (and if that's all, I'd easily just forget about it). But some of this other stuff is just too eery for me. Just can't shake it, really. World Maps just look so wrong now.

 

 

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It's a particular older SNES video game' date=' which has seemingly gone from 2 players (like the rest of the versions of the game) to only 1 player.[/quote']What game?

 

The video had quickly spawned a meme' date=' with many people repeating it. However, from the time of the video's release, to now, as I said, it had changed to not be what I'm familiar with. This one I was willing to accept that I may had misremembered. Still worth noting the difference.[/quote']What was the meme as you remember and what is it now?

 

I found this, which contains a probable explanation.

 

http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/team-fortress-2-review/1900-6415650/

 

One particular big one is the location of Japan. A country I'm all too familiar with. It's current location really seems off to me. From what I recall, it should be much further south. Directly east of china, with south korea being next to hokkaido. If you check it's current position, its much further north than that. This has bothered me ever since I noticed it.Australia should be a bit further south, not bunched up next to a bunch of islands. And the gulf of carpentaria wasn't there either. New Zealand was a bit further north rather than in it's current south-east position.

This may have the easiest explanation. You have stated you are a gamer, whether avid or casual, you have certainly played games that include a map. Maybe a world map or just a regional one. There, the accuracy is of little importance and it would be quite easy for you to have formed an inaccurate memory of some continental positions along with your accurate memory. Spatial memory is very important to your brain. When spatially conflicting images are viewed, your brain tries to reconcile the differences and confusion is the result, like the visual perceptions in Einstein's post:

 

http://timetravelinstitute.com/threads/the-mystery-spot.10316/

 

Please don't misunderstand this post. I am not saying you have not experienced, what you say you have. I am offering one of several explanations for "why" your memories seem anomalous.

 

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Thanks for sharing. A very interesting read. I have not got time to respond in detail atm, but will reply later in the new week. You seem adamant about your memory of Japan's location; are you from Japan or the region of Asia that is close to Japan?

Nope. But as I've mentioned, I'm well acquainted with the country, and to me it'd be like not knowing where the US or Russia is on the map.

 

What game?

Super Buster Bros (SNES). The game on other platforms indeed has the multiplayer mode I remember. But one of them (PS1) is too new (nor do I own that version), and I've pretty much never been to an arcade (except maybe once in my life). There's no other versions of the game. And the only version that lacks 2p mode is the SNES one.

 

What was the meme as you remember and what is it now?I found this, which contains a probable explanation.

 

http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/team-fortress-2-review/1900-6415650/

Not only is that link from 2014 (much later than the original video), but it also doesn't seem to mention the video at all. Here's the video in question (from 2009): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h42d0WHRSck. The meme spawned is now "unless it's a farm!" which is said at the end of the video, rather than the bit with the boat (when I originally watched the video, the dialogue was changed, along with the emphasis to be something like "and then he put them on a BOAT!", which as you can see has completely changed).

 

This may have the easiest explanation. You have stated you are a gamer, whether avid or casual, you have certainly played games that include a map. Maybe a world map or just a regional one. There, the accuracy is of little importance and it would be quite easy for you to have formed an inaccurate memory of some continental positions along with your accurate memory. Spatial memory is very important to your brain. When spatially conflicting images are viewed, your brain tries to reconcile the differences and confusion is the result, like the visual perceptions in Einstein's post:http://timetravelinstitute.com/threads/the-mystery-spot.10316/

Which is what I figured at first as well. Stuff like being mistaken about new zealand's location, or not remembering the gulf of carpentaria seem like things that are completely understandable. Some users have even brought up map projections as being a possible issue. But no map projection, nor any map in any game I've played portrays Japan in it's southern location. If you can provide a map which has it in that position (game, old, fictional, or otherwise), I'll drop the issue and fully agree. However, as of now, I cannot find a single map that shows it in that position. Just to be clear, I made my own map, to demonstrate the change.

 

This is the world map as you can see it on any globe/map/etc as of now: http://geology.com/world/world-map.gif

 

This is what I remember (more or less, the angle is still a bit off though): http://i.imgur.com/39TlTaD.png

 

That's just to note the Japan change. The rest of the map is naturally still off. If you can explain how there's such a large difference, by all means go for it.

 

Please don't misunderstand this post. I am not saying you have not experienced, what you say you have. I am offering one of several explanations for "why" your memories seem anomalous.

Certainly. I'm a pretty natural skeptic, which is why this is bothering me so much. It's such a dramatic, yet certain, change. But to my skeptic mind, there's not really any way to explain it. Every map I see has it in the northern position. I don't really play games that feature world maps (most of the time I play fantasy games). And Japan is a country I've known about and have known the position for, for pretty much my entire life. Which is why it's so shocking to me.

 

To give a good example of how it 'feels', imagine if the US were in the place of Canada. Or if the locations of China and Mongolia were switched. It'd be off and you'd definitely notice it.

 

 

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Kafke;

 

All I can offer is, a lot of people are bad at geography. That's not meant as an insult to your intelligence. I've had wrong impressions of where some countries are.

 

As for the video games, there are often more than one trailer used to advertise games or movies. One version may run for several days, weeks, or months and then be switched to something slightly or completely different.

 

It is more likely than not that your memories are simply inaccurate. You're still young and are still rapidly developing "new" memories. This is a weak explanation but, memories can over lap or run concurrently. They can begin at a given point and additional stimuli cause the path to alter to a given terminus* but... sometimes it goes to an unexpected terminus and we get a false or incorrect realization... false memory. If this memory gets reinforced by repeatedly referring to it, it can become a long term memory you feel is completely accurate and other things to the contrary are wrong. This is common.

 

This is NOT a diagnosis but for a better understanding, you could look up confabulation for more information on what inaccurate memories can be caused by and different ways it can be manifest. Please don't go to your Dr and say, "So and so, on the internet, says I have, or may have, "X" disease". That (sometimes, often, usually, always...pick one...) pisses them off. If this IS becoming a serious issue for you then, you might want to discuss it with your Dr.

 

*Consider this;

 

Your recall process is similar to a yes/no diagram and your memories are the data in the steps that decide the next direction to take. Conflicting data or data that is too similar, are what lead to an incorrect direction in the process and the wrong conclusion.

 

 

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He has a good point though, and it's something I thought myself for a while. And almost certainly appear as a "you just have bad memory" or "you are bad at geography" to an outside perspective. And yea, if this was something like being mistaken about a country in africa or something, I'd fully 100% agree. But as I said, imagine the US or china or something being more north than what you remember. You'd almost certainly feel the same way. That's it's pretty clearly off, and not just a "bad at geography" thing.

 

As for the game "trailers", it's not a trailer. It's a promo video. It's part of a series, the video was uploaded once in 2009, and the rest of the videos are entirely different (there's one for each class/character). I'm 100% certain there's only one version of the video. If there were indeed multiple, you'd be able to find it. This video was never displayed on TV, and only uploaded directly to youtube and posted on the official game site. I'd be aware if there were multiple.

 

Either way, that's my experience with the mandela effect. It's really a take it or leave it deal. There's no real way to fully 'accept' the 'new' version of things (it'll always look off), and there's no way to convince someone of the alternate version of things. And as I've posted elsewhere, it sounds crazy until it happens to you.

 

 

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He has a good point though, and it's something I thought myself for a while. And almost certainly appear as a "you just have bad memory" or "you are bad at geography" to an outside perspective. And yea, if this was something like being mistaken about a country in africa or something, I'd fully 100% agree. But as I said, imagine the US or china or something being more north than what you remember. You'd almost certainly feel the same way. That's it's pretty clearly off, and not just a "bad at geography" thing.As for the game "trailers", it's not a trailer. It's a promo video. It's part of a series, the video was uploaded once in 2009, and the rest of the videos are entirely different (there's one for each class/character). I'm 100% certain there's only one version of the video. If there were indeed multiple, you'd be able to find it. This video was never displayed on TV, and only uploaded directly to youtube and posted on the official game site. I'd be aware if there were multiple.

 

Either way, that's my experience with the mandela effect. It's really a take it or leave it deal. There's no real way to fully 'accept' the 'new' version of things (it'll always look off), and there's no way to convince someone of the alternate version of things. And as I've posted elsewhere, it sounds crazy until it happens to you.

The problem is you might have a memory identical to someone else. There may be more than one person that has memories like yours.

 

I have a memory of an object that is shared with someone else. The object changed its physical shape and composition. We both remember how the object was and have no explanation for how it became what it is now.

 

 

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The problem is you might have a memory identical to someone else. There may be more than one person that has memories like yours.I have a memory of an object that is shared with someone else. The object changed its physical shape and composition. We both remember how the object was and have no explanation for how it became what it is now.

Yup, that's the other thing that keeps me from accepting "bad geography or bad memory". I've asked around, and there's clearly other people remembering the same things. If it were just me, it might be easier to accept.

 

 

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The problem is you might have a memory identical to someone else. There may be more than one person that has memories like yours.I have a memory of an object that is shared with someone else. The object changed its physical shape and composition. We both remember how the object was and have no explanation for how it became what it is now.

Yup, that's the other thing that keeps me from accepting "bad geography or bad memory". I've asked around, and there's clearly other people remembering the same things. If it were just me, it might be easier to accept.

OK, if 1% of the people "remember" something different than the 99%, who's wrong? 10% to 90%... 20/80... 30/70...50/50? At what point is one memory "more correct" than another? Wrong is wrong regardless of how many disagree. Why someone remembers something differently can range from a simple error to a cognitive disorder.

 

 

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