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Old Science does not apply to the unknown!


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Physicists have found the law of nature which prevents time travel paradoxes, and 
thereby permits time travel. It turns out to be the same law that makes sure light 
travels in straight lines, and which underpins the most straightforward version of 
quantum theory, developed half a century ago by Richard Feynman.  

Relativists have been trying to come to terms with time travel for the past seven 
years, since Kip Thorne and his colleagues at Caltech discovered -- much to their 
surprise -- that there is nothing in the laws of physics (specifically, the general 
theory of relativity) to forbid it. Among several different ways in which the laws 
allow a time machine to exist, the one that has been most intensively studied mathematically 
is the "wormhole". This is like a tunnel through space and time, connecting different 
regions of the Universe -- different spaces and different times. The two "mouths" 
of the wormhole could be next to each other in space, but separated in time, so that 
it could literally be used as a time tunnel.  

Building such a device would be very difficult -- it would involve manipulating black 
holes, each with many times the mass of our Sun. But they could conceivably occur 
naturally, either on this scale or on a microscopic scale.  

The worry for physicists is that this raises the possibility of paradoxes, familiar 
to science fiction fans. For example, a time traveller could go back in time and 
accidentally (or even deliberately) cause the death of her granny, so that neither 
the time traveller's mother nor herself was ever born. People are hard to describe 
mathematically, but the equivalent paradox in the relativists' calculations involves 
a billiard ball that goes in to one mouth of a wormhole, emerges in the past from 
the other mouth, and collides with its other self on the way in to the first mouth, 
so that it is knocked out of the way and never enters the time tunnel at all. But, 
of course, there are many possible "self consistent" journeys through the tunnel, 
in which the two versions of the billiard ball never disturb one another.  

If time travel really is possible -- and after seven years' intensive study all the 
evidence says that it is -- there must, it seems, be a law of nature to prevent such 
paradoxes arising, while permitting the self- consistent journeys through time. Igor 
Novikov, who holds joint posts at the P. N. Lebedev Institute, in Moscow, and at 
NORDITA (the Nordic Institute for Theoretical Physics), in Copenhagen, first pointed 
out the need for a "Principle of Self-consistency" of this kind in 1989 (Soviet Physics 
JETP, vol 68 p 439). Now, working with a large group of colleagues in Denmark, Canada, 
Russia and Switzerland, he has found the physical basis for this principle.  

It involves something known as the Principle of least action (or Principle of minimal 
action), and has been known, in one form or another, since the early seventeenth 
century. It describes the trajectories of things, such as the path of a light ray 
from A to B, or the flight of a ball tossed through an upper story window. And, it 
now seems, the trajectory of a billiard ball through a time tunnel. Action, in this 
sense, is a measure both of the energy involved in traversing the path and the time 
taken. For light (which is always a special case), this boils down to time alone, 
so that the principle of least action becomes the principle of least time, which 
is why light travels in straight lines.  

You can see how the principle works when light from a source in air enters a block 
of glass, where it travels at a slower speed than in air. In order to get from the 
source A outside the glass to a point B inside the glass in the shortest possible 
time, the light has to travel in one straight line up to the edge of the glass, then 
turn through a certain angle and travel in another straight line (at the slower speed) 
on to point B. Travelling by any other route would take longer.  

The action is a property of the whole path, and somehow the light (or "nature") always 
knows how to choose the cheapest or simplest path to its goal. In a similar fashion, 
the principle of least action can be used to describe the entire curved path of the 
ball thrown through a window, once the time taken for the journey is specified. Although 
the ball can be thrown at different speeds on different trajectories (higher and 
slower, or flatter and faster) and still go through the window, only trajectories 
which satisfy the Principle of least action are possible. Novikov and his colleagues 
have applied the same principle to the "trajectories" of billiard balls around time 
loops, both with and without the kind of "self collision" that leads to paradoxes. 
In a mathematical tour de force, they have shown that in both cases only self-consistent 
solutions to the equations satisfy the principle of least action -- or in their own 
words, "the whole set of classical trajectories which are globally self-consistent 
can be directly and simply recovered by imposing the principle of minimal action" 
(NORDITA Preprint, number 95/49A).  

The word "classical" in this connection means that they have not yet tried to include 
the rules of quantum theory in their calculations. But there is no reason to think 
that this would alter their conclusions. Feynman, who was entranced by the principle 
of least action, formulated quantum physics entirely on the basis of it, using what 
is known as the "sum over histories" or "path integral" formulation, because, like 
a light ray seemingly sniffing out the best path from A to B, it takes account of 
all possible trajectories in selecting the most efficient.  

So self-consistency is a consequence of the Principle of least action, and nature 
can be seen to abhor a time travel paradox. Which removes the last objection of physicists 
to time travel in principle -- and leaves it up to the engineers to get on with the 
job of building a time machine.

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I have been asked on numerous occasions to be more descriptive pertaining to the contents of my posts, as to “ how” I arrived at the information I am attempting to discuss with other members here, by injecting a more suitably acceptable, "mature" conversation.

I will do diligence to satisfy that request, on behalf of the readers who suggested this to me, and all future readers that are of such noble critics. 

Any further statements I post here will display an attempt to reflect such an acceptable format, in order to appeal to a more "mature" and positive response from the reader, but also keep in mind that I am by no means impeccably compliable to everyone’s expectations of what may be considered "acceptable" due to the fact that we all perceive things in many different ways. (i.e. "Inkblot Test" psychiatry 101)

[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 20 June 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 20 June 2000).]

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I have come to the conclusion of a wormhole being able to transport you to various dimensions not by mathematical equations but on the existance of evidence already there.
or rather peoples testimonies on NDE (near death experiences) the more I studied about this the more I came to the conclusion that these people describing this rotating tunnel that is black and comes to a pin point of light might actually be describing a wormhole. which is only a connection to two places. There were different versions but many of them described the same effects . I have read about 200 cases so far. some do not describe the tunnel though,but a different form of arriving. This may sound very funny to some scientists reading the board but after studying the Montauk project/philadelphia experiment which may or may not be true it describes the exact same tunnel as those experiences described by the NDE's. This was something I noticed right away. some of the descriptions were exactly the same. but Im still studying it. trying to find relationships and trying to find answers to see what it is we might be missing. maybe wormholes are not what we think and then again maybe there are different types of wormholes. now more and more when people describe time travel or dimension travel alot of them are looking to wormholes and maybe the answer has been there all along. 
alot more movies are using them as well as in the movie "contact."
I have found as I have studied various things that a lot of the answers we seek are already there hidden in nature itself.


you know how you said "conceivably occur naturally on this scale or on a microscopic scale." ? alot of things are the same macroscopically as they are microscopically so I beleive the answer now lies in the particle accelerator.

----------------------------------
answer from philosopher grasshopper:
"well that depends, did someone fill the glass with liquid then stop half way?... then it is half full. or did the glass have more liquid in it and someone took some out? ..then it would be half empty." heheh  

answer from mathematical grasshopper:
"there is no way it is exactly half...let me see here..let me get my measureing ruler..
probability alone states its neither half empty nor full..the odds of that happening are staggering!...even down to the counting of the individual atoms...no way it could be exactly half!hmmmm lets see..it's 000000.2 over the half mark-so it's neither." heheh  

answer from Advanced Quantum Physics grasshopper:
"there is no glass." heheheh  

[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 20 June 2000).]

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Speaking of black holes Time, there was an article in this months Science news on them.
Astronomers analyzing 33 black holes at the centers of galaxies have found that the biggest galaxies have the biggest black holes. a black hole weighs typically 0.2 percent of the mass of its galaxies bulge. (the part where the galaxy first formed.)
This suggests that black holes are intimately connected with bulge formation.
they found every galaxy with a bulge contains a black hole and those that had no bulges were not likely to have a black hole either.
The more massive the black hole the faster the stars move around it.
They are saying that the black hole comes in its usual 0.2 percent and after that the black holes and bulges grow only when two galaxies merge. 
a black hole may start out small and grow during galaxy formation. feeding on the same gas that the bulge of a newborn galaxy draws in to make stars.
they also mentioned quasars lying at the core of galazies are powered by the growth of the black hole.and if a black hole does most of its feeding in the early part of the galaxy then the black holes ability to power the quasar will diminish over time. so active quasars would be a lot less common than black holes would be.
"Galaxy formation directly results in the black hole feeding that makes quasar's shine." Kormendy agreed.

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Well put Pamela;
this brings new meaning to the words:>
"Expanding Universe"
yes I am familiar with what you speak of, for I too, am a subscriber of "Science news"
and often read "Scientific American" & "Discovery Magazine" among many others. 
I have a copy of an April 1992 issue of Discover Magazine with a highlighted article entitled:> "Time~Travel" How Science can finally make it happen. (page 52) The article goes on to describe a researcher from a Tel Aviv university "Yakir Aharonov" whom also was a visiting Professor serving on appointment to Berkeley, whom at the "Time" was a 59yr. old cigar smoking mainstream physicist & quantum mechanical theorist, claiming to have designed a means that would enable an observer to travel through Time.

According to this version of a quantum “Time~Machine”, it would create a sort of virtual holographic simulation in which you could not interact with the environment, only "observe" If you remember the TV series "Quantum Leap" you would be more like "AL" the fellow that no one else within the past Time-line could see, and the environment was nothing more than a holographic image to AL. 
I will be glad to send a copy of this issue, or any others I have on file pertaining, to anyone who requests it, as I have it scanned into my PC, I can send it to your email in an "attachment" 

Also interesting is an article I have on file from a Jan. 2000 issue of Scientific American (page 46) that discusses some very interesting views about negative energy, wormholes and warp drive.

[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 21 June 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 21 June 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 21 June 2000).]

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Time02112, WoW, that’s so weird that you bring that up today. It reminds me of what I barely began to theorize today. It’s not scientific, it’s another personal Time Travel experience. It has to do with my life line in my palms. I’m not a palm reader, but I know that life lines in which ever hand you are dominate in change every 3 months. The one you hardly use, always stays the same, as it being the set blue prints of exactly what you must follow. 

Anyway’s, let me begin. Today (6-20-00) on the bus ride to work, my left hand began twitching uncontrollably for no reason. I won’t say who, since I don’t want people to think I’m crazy, but someone said to me just when that happened. “Wake up Harvey, this isn’t your world, your still dreaming. Wake up. Look at your watch if you don’t believe me, I'll prove it to you.”

So I did, and it read 7:44 a.m. Oh by the way, I was alone on the bus when this happened. Just to clarify that…

Ok, what I was going to say about my time line, or lifeline changing is that I theorized how you said about the wormhole, swallowing its own mouth as if it never existed. Well I think my future lifeline never existed. I have, well had 2 on each hand. And the 2nd one is disappearing, like if it’s ceasing to exist. The reason I say this, is because I get shifted everyday through time it feels like. I have intense déjà vu feelings. Not your normal, "I knew this happened" kind of deja vu. It’s like taking the future, and placing it into my present, and it’s very emotionally profound (well to me it is anyway’s). 

Anyone ever seen the movie Frequency? Well it’s just like that. I have memories of being in certain places at a certain time, and feeling it done, no further need of experiencing it. As if my future was altered somehow. Wouldn’t a wormhole swallowing it’s own mouth, be like cover up any Temporal Incursion? Hmmm, something to wonder about.

Any way’s, here is proof. I have taken snaps of my left and right palm with my web cam to show the difference. Keep in mind, my right palm looked just as deep lined as my left in its life line a few months ago. And slowly, I been noticing that it’s disappearing. Why? Who knows? Have I prevented my own future, or someone done it for me? I have memories of them, they hit me hard everyday. Trips me out big time... And the more they do, the more I notice my lines changing. But any way’s, that’s about it. Anyone care to comment? 

Pic of Left Palm. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/9822/leftpalm.jpg
Pic of Right Palm. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/9822/rightpalm.jpg

Have a great Wednesday all,

Javier C.

[This message has been edited by TimeTravelActivist (edited 21 June 2000).]

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I have heard this before, I can't remember exactly, but from what I recall from reading this article, it goes on to describe:> what is commonly referred to, as the "Loop back Theory" in which Time is stuck in a dimensional loop, moving back & forth, many times over & over again, in order to prevent total annihilation, or "collapse" of that particular timeline of existence, it creates this looping effect to enable itself to adjust, or make repairs. (for lack of the vernacular)

It would appear that perhaps an overwhelming bombardment of event collisions, might be responsible for the creation of this temporal flux anomaly.

Anyone else here, have more information about this Time Phenomena?

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Time02112, do you think that's what I might have been feeling/sensing my whole life? I was very young when I first began being shifted through Time. What would be the solution to this? 

I know what the out come of this is. Hidden arggression and hate for Time Travelers doing this to me, my whole life. Controling every action to have me come to their damn check points (Deja Vu). Realzing I had no damn choice, I was bond to feel I did it before. And the start of a resistance movement to stop them. Anyone want to join the fight?

I don't know, what does anyone else think? Could this be why I am a Time Travel Activist... 😃 of course it is. 

Wouldn't you be too if you lived my life? Much more later, gotta go now.

-Javier C.

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It is too complex, to sum up an imbalance of strange occurrences as such, to blame them entirely upon irresponsible actions on behalf of "Time~Travelers", as opposed to the many irresponsible occurrences, involving many generations of other individuals that might have contributed to these anomalies, yet, perhaps many other unknown aspects that exist within a given Time-Line, add to the creation of this phenomena?

I just want to inject another thought here...

Has it ever occured to anyone that it just might be possible that Time~Travel itself, might be our only means to save us from ourselves, and to prevent such a dreadfulful occurence from reaching an it's end?
(Just a thought.)

[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 21 June 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Time02112 (edited 21 June 2000).]

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Perhaps, but why then would a Time Traveler allow for my entire life to be a Temporal Anamoly or whatever it would be catagorized as. I don't really think that Time Travel could be what saves mankind. Maybe if it were used to prevent a disease, or some disaster, that's all. 

But to use it to control people and and have them end up living a life like mine, is unacceptable. 

Isn't it?

-Javier C .

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Hi,this is for TimeTravelActivist. I just discovered this site,etc. I noticed you mentioned "intense deja vu" feelings. Something to the effect of "the future was brought to your present". Well, you're not alone. With me it's the opposite. The past is brought to the forefront of my very existence. Not some ancient past, but more of a "living past" if you will. I'll try my best to describe it. I believe that every waking moment of a persons existence is labeled with a dynamic emotional map. For example, in a mild case, the feeling you get when you hear a song that you haven't heard in a long time. I flood of emotions hit you, sort of like a emotional landscape. These typical feelings of nonstalgia are not uncommon, but they are also fleeting and imperfect. I have a condition where I will suddenly be nailed full fledged with this 'emotional map' or landscape or whatever in it's purest form. It was so overwhelming that I seeked out medical help. I mostly experienced these incidences when I was a child. Well, the doctors couldn't figure me out, but they did notice that I had anomolous EEG readings, and promptly labeled me an epilectic. I don't believe I am epilectic. I think there are two concepts of time. A purely physical concept of time that science grapples with, and then there is a more "Human" concept of time that is based on our consciousness and our emotional state. I think consciousness should be taken into account here. Time is something that is not only measured, it is experienced. If we percieve a certain period of time as a "map" (for lack of a better term), and as each moment passes, this map reassembles/modifies itself, then if one were to experience a map that had already existed, in a strange way we have visited (or had thrust apon us) another period of time. I don't know, maybe I'm a flake, but I can't deny the bizarre experiences I have had. Do you have any thoughts?

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By the way, in case anyone is not yet aware, I do have some very interesting websites for you to visit, pertaining to the interest of Time~Travel, and related subject matter.

I have posted some headline info in the form of "Hyperlinks"... just click on the one that interests you, an your browser will be transported to the website pertaining to the text as selected.

Goto:>  http://pages.bolt.com/other/time02112

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Activist, For the first time I'm actually understanding where your comming from. I have experienced looping of time. It cost me a friendship as the person I was with was too terrorized by the experience to ever come near me again. The only thing I think your wrong about is that your taking this as a personal attack by time travelers. I believe this is a natural phenomena that has probably happened to others but they refuse to take a chance of ridacule and speak of it. You may be one of those rare people like those that cause objects to move that have an unusual energy field and you help this natural temporal rift to occur. Certain people wanted to wire me up and study me years back and I ran like hell. You yourself may be the key element to temperal distortions. My heart goes out to you as this usually doesn't stop until age 50 or so. The body has to slow down hormonally and the energy level drop. Do you also kill houseplants? That's a sign, having a "black" thumb.

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Time 02112-
Thanks for the letter. I have been trying to respond back to you for three days but I keep getting my letter returned to me with this message:"This mailbox has exceeded their disk quota." Just wanted to let you know because you may not be getting other peoples mail either.
-pamela

mokrie dela-
I have been experiencing looping also among some other things. maybe that is why we are all so interested in timetravel because in a sense we are already doing it. mine started in 1984.
I think you are right it is probably happening to alot of people but they are afraid to say because of what other people might think of them...I'm writing this for them.  

[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 23 June 2000).]

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Wow, it seems like a lot of people are experiencing some kind of bizarre time looping. Maybe we should start looking at this seriously. Has any one talked to a doctor about it? I think it may also have a lot to do with your brain activity. Like I said I had strange EEG readings that were unknown to my doctor, but close enough to epilepsy for a diagnosis. I wonder just how far reaching these experiences are among the world's population..

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Activist and everyone else: No I will not dismiss the possibility of time travelers screwing with people-- anything is possible. I have been very guarded about talking about personal events as most people would not believe me. I see that I've come to the right place since this subject of time attracts people with similar experiences. I don't know equations or math but I do know phenomena. I led a few symposiums on the unexplainable years back and was a subject of govt interest for awhile. A dangerous thing to interest the govt. I have found that time anomalys are a world wide occurance but few will step forward to speak out. It puts you in the same catagory as those that claim to have been abducted by aliens---loony tunes. Never the less, there are more people having trouble with time then you can imagine. I still do not think it's someone causing it in particular. Maybe it's the research being done--particle accelorators etc causing this. Maybe sun spots or just maybe there have always been thousands of portals around the world and all phenomena is natural and part of the make up of our planet. I still believe that certain people are wired a little differently then others and are plagued by strange occurances. The people I have met are all different. Different levels of education, ethnicity and wealth. No two are alike other then time loops, time jumps, time loss or time gain. I wish I had a mathematical equation to explain it but I don't. I can't even ballance my check book.

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I'll describe one of these experiences:
I was sleeping in my old house and all of a sudden I found myself standing by my back bedroom window. wether in body or astral body I donno. I couldnt tell but it was very strange the curtains on the window kept changing over and over to curtains i had previously on the window to curtains i never saw before. as it was flashing and changing I in wonderment reached out my hand to try to grab a piece of it and my hand went right through the curtain just like it was a puff of air. and then it stopped on a particular curtain and I turned around and it was still my room but not my stuff. there were two little beds and a dresser I wondered greatly at this it was a little girls room. and then i heard a muffled cry coming from the other room I walked out and went to it.
It was coming from the closet and I walked over the closet door was opened and inside a little boy was crying I was moved with great compassion and he sensed me and looked up and was afraid.
"Don't be afraid..I wont hurt you. why are you crying?"
I felt compassion coming from me to him.
knowledge came to me that his dad was a truck driver,was abusive to the little boy and was on his way home. The little boy was afraid his dad would beat him again for something he did. the little boy confirmed the knowledge with his words.
I went to the kitchen, same kitchen but decorated differently. and looked out the window to see if I could see the dad. I felt extrememly light like i was a ghost and I had white on.I might have been glowing slightly.then i went back into the room to comfort the little boy.
I heard the door open and heard the father coming down the hall the little boy put his hands over his head and scrunched farther down into the closet.
I observed the little boy and stepped out into the hallway and put my hand up to the man "you will hurt the boy no longer." I said.
The man was scared to death and started crying. knowledge came that he would be hurt no longer and then I dont remember anymore and I woke up. thinking that was a strange dream.
A month after we moved out of the house and into a new place our old neighbor called and said a new family had moved in our house with three little kids. I could barely speak.
"Do you know what kind of job he does?" I asked.
My old neighbor answered. "He's a truck driver."

strange but true.

[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 25 June 2000).]

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AAt this point I am going to say what I had said to Pamela privately. 1000 years ago a seer or psychic was rare. Today even cops ar told to go with their intuition. Wether its because of our household appliances, power lines or sun spots, people in most civilized countries are developing more abilities. We are mutating or our brains are starting to use parts we have'nt used as much in the past. Some have more going on than normal psychic abilities. Some are dimensionally challenged. (that was a joke) No one will speak of their experiences with time or other dimensions until surrounded by people speaking out on the same subject. If you do speak up you could be diagnosed with schizophrenia or epilepsy or drugged or locked up. I have believed for quite awhile that the human race is evolving but pity the poor guy that evolves a little faster and does not know the right people! I think assylums may have quite a few sane inmates that have been convinced that their advanced brain is broken. Voices could be picked up like radio signals and if you go on T.V. for the psychic hotline it's o.k. but god help you if your a teacher or dentist or such. I don't wish to pull the discussion in the wrong direction but I felt this needed saying.

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I remember hearing a comment about all myths & legends have some form of a common denomenator, in that which they will all be repeated indefinitly.
After I heard this comment, we were all instructed to open our books, entitled "Greek Mythology" 101

Many people through the centuries have proclaimed that these "Visitors" will return again, as we begin to form "another" global society, which to, is indicative of advancement in technology. It happened before, and it is happening again.

I just hope for our sake, we get it right this "Time"

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