A simple discussion about time

[Demi]

I have been researching Time and its relation to us as Human beings, different popular and uncommon theories about Time Travel, as well as time and its relation to gravity. I am familiar that Einstein coined the term Time Dilation, which if I'm not mistaken refers to the difference in the passing of time relative to two planetary bodies near each other. When I say planetary bodies please do not mistake my phrasing for planets, but two objects, one with intense gravitational force and another with weaker gravitational force. For example the earth and a satellite, but I am sure most of you here can grasp this simple concept of Time Dilation. What I would like to discuss is Time itself.

 

Let me begin with 3 Models of Time.

 

One accepted and used model of Time is akin to that of a number line. A line that has a beginning and ending, numbered to keep track of the passing of units. Respectfully named a time-line.

 

Another accepted model of Time refers to time as a cyclical event. Those who use this model see Time as something that cannot be changed because events that unfold are predetermined and will eventually loop back to its point of origin. Sort of like the water cycle. clouds rain > rain collects > water evaporates > water molecules become clouds again repeating the process forever.

 

I am unaware if this model of Time is widely accepted or used by those who practice Physics (Quantum, Theoretical, or Applied), yet I can be sure that at least a decent amount of people interested in time travel, or supporting the Many Worlds Theory, are aware of this particular model of time. This model being the Everett-Wheeler model of time. To be honest I am unsure if I can explain this model properly.

 

This model of time is somewhat like a time-line, but only in the beginning, and as each person makes a choice to do something the time-line splits off at each decision. So on and so forth for each decision on each time-line respectfully, indefinitely.

 

Now onward to Time and its relation to us as Human beings.

 

Most perceive time at a 1 : 1 ratio. Yet as we age we begin to perceive time at different ratios, most young adults perceive time at a 1 : 0.5 ratio, and the older we get the harder it is for us to perceive Time at its regular ratio, sometimes even dwindling to a 1 : 0.3 ratio. Now this is only how we perceive the passing of Time and not related to the actual passing of Time. The actual passing of Time maintains its set course in our universe UNLESS acted upon by the force of gravity.

 

Now the perception of Time can always be altered by us simply by focusing our attention into the moment that is now, here, present or whatever you would wish to call the moment of being. Fun Fact: YOU ARE BREATHING RIGHT NOW... So have you focused on your breathing yet? maybe just a few seconds ago you had perfect autonomous breathing and now you are focusing on the act of breathing. This is the best way I can help others understand our perception of the passing of Time. When you do not bring much attention into it, it seems to happen almost without you knowing yet you are still doing it. Such as your being in the act of the passing of Time.

 

Just a few methods of Time Travel

 

 

I get these methods from The Anderson Institute, and a few are know by the public while most are not. When I say this I don't mean to make it sound as if these technologies are top secret classified information, but to say that most people are too preoccupied with their day to day events to come across this website and get more informed about methods of time travel. Two which are quite readily available with our current technology, do not require some exotic sci-fi materials, and do not require a substantial amount of energy to work. These are just excerpts from the Anderson Institution. These are just four methods of Time Travel, two (Time-warp Fields, and Circulating Light Beams) are readily available in our current time.

 

Let me start with Quantum Tunneling

 

"Quantum Tunneling is an evanescent wave coupling effect that occurs in quantum mechanics. The correct wavelength combined with the proper tunneling barrier makes it possible to pass signals faster than light, backwards in time. Imagine, if you can, light pulses consisting of waves of various frequencies are shot toward a 10 centimeter chamber containing cesium vapor. All information about the incoming pulse is contained in the leading edge of its waves. This information is all the cesium atoms need to replicate the pulse and send it out the other side.

 

At the same time it is believed an opposite wave rebounds inside the chamber cancelling out the main part of the incoming pulse as it enters the chamber. By this time the new pulse, moving faster than the speed of light, has traveled about 60 feet beyond the chamber. Essentially the pulse has left the chamber before it finished entering, traveling backwards in time."

 

Time-warped Fields

 

 

"Time-warped Fields use energy within curvatures of spacetime surrounding a rotating mass or energy field to generate containable and controllable fields of closed-timelike curves that can move matter and information forward or backward in time.

 

As general relativity predicts, rotating bodies drag spacetime around themselves in a phenomenon referred to as frame-dragging. This rotational frame-dragging effect is also known as the Lense-Thirring effect. The rotation of an object alters space and time, dragging a nearby object out of position compared to the predictions of Newtonian physics. The predicted effect is small—about one part in a few trillion.

 

However, as Dr. David Lewis Anderson proposed in 1987 with his announcement of time-warped field theory, the difference in potential energy between two different areas of twisted spacetime due to frame-dragging is significantly large. Even the smallest twist in spacetime contains enormous energy potential and can be used to create containable and controllable fields of close-timelike curves without the need for significant input power. This makes both forward and reverse time control possible within the limits of technology today."

 

Circulating Light Beams

 

 

"Circulating Light Beams can be created using gamma and magnetic fields to warp time. The approach can twist space that causes time to be twisted, meaning you could theoretically walk through time as you walk through space.

 

A number of interesting post-Newtonian phenomena are known to occur for rotating distributions of matter in Einstein’s general theory of relativity. Inertial frame dragging, for example, is a consequence of the weak gravitational field of a slowly rotating massive sphere. In addition, exact solutions of the Einstein field equations indicate the presence of closed timelike lines for rotating Kerr black holes, van Stockum rotating dust cylinders, and the rotating universe of Gödel.

 

Recently, Ronald L. Mallett solved the linearized Einstein field equations to obtain the gravitational field produced by the electromagnetic radiation of a unidirectional ring laser. It was shown that a massive spinning neutral particle at the center of the ring laser exhibited inertial frame dragging.

 

Mallett believes he has found a way to make it happen. By trapping light inside a photonic crystal, he can cause it to circulate. The energy of the circulating light will cause the space inside the circle to twist, causing a gravitational force.

 

This concept can be thought of as a spoon stirring a pot. The light is the spoon rotating around the inner rim of the pot. The space is the liquid being swirled by the spoon. As the space twists, it will coil the normally linear passage of time with it, spiraling the past, present, and future together into one continuous loop. It is this twisting of space and time that Mallett believes will make time travel possible."

 

and lastly The Casimir Effect

 

 

"The Casimir Effect is a physical force arising from a quantized field, for example between two uncharged plates. This can produce a locally mass-negative region of space-time that could stabilize a wormhole to allow faster than light travel.

 

In quantum field theory, the Casimir effect and the Casimir-Polder force are physical forces arising from a quantized field. The typical example is of two uncharged metallic plates in a vacuum, placed a few micrometers apart, without any external electromagnetic field. In a classical description, the lack of an external field also means that there is no field between the plates, and no force would be measured between them. When this field is instead studied using quantum electrodynamics, it is seen that the plates do affect the virtual photons which constitute the field, and generate a net force—either an attraction or a repulsion depending on the specific arrangement of the two plates."

 

So guys, can we discuss? I apologize in advance if this isn't in the right board, or if something similar has been posted previously.

 

 

[RainmanTime]

Oh geez, not another person citing David Anderson as if he were a real scientist.

 

You need to talk to Darby. This guy is a fraud. Full stop.

 

RMT

 

 

[Demi]

I'm sorry if you misunderstood what I was trying to discuss. My topics are a general discussion about Time and its relation to us as Humans, theories about Time Travel (both popular and uncommon), and Time and it's relation to the force we call Gravity. I never cited David Anderson as a real scientist, I simply took excerpts from his website that contains theories about methods of time travel to get the discussion going. I can understand why you, or others would come to that assumption. But please I ask that if you are going to post please consider contributing information about the topics I have previously stated, as this is a discussion and not an argument.

 

 

[Gpa]

Yea, you lost me at...

 

I get these methods from The Anderson Institute,

:zzz:

 

 

[RainmanTime]

The problem is, you wrote:

 

However' date=' as Dr. David Lewis Anderson proposed in 1987

He is not a doctor. Not even close. He may claim he is, but Darby has done enough research on him to show he uses that title fraudulently.

You are right, this is not an argument. But I am pointing at a fraud to let you know he is a fraud. I cannot assume that you know he is a fraud, but I can reveal this to you so that you may think twice about believing anything he says about time travel. He has no scientific foundation for any of his theories, primarily because he is a scam artist. If you search on his name on this site, you will find Darby's posts where he shows that he is a scam artist.

 

As for contributing to your thoughts: Sorry, I am not your guy for that. Mostly because I do not believe the romantic notion of time travel is possible because Time is not a separately traversable dimension like space. In fact, there is only space-time, a unified fabric. Einstein showed us this. And then there is the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics (I am an engineer by trade, and also a teacher of engineering), which tells us that the universe has a serious bias against time travel backwards in time. So, I am sorry I cannot contribute because, if I did, you would likely not agree and it would then turn into an argument.

 

RMT

 

 

[Z]

Demi! Great Post.

 

About quantum tunneling, I just realised the existence of that theory some days ago. I read that the information you send arrives before you send it. But what I was reading also said it was not possible to send information by there. I have a question for this theory. Why does the laser go faster than light in cesium vapor? it doesn't make sense. When photons travel trough atoms, they travel always under the c constant.

 

However' date=' as Dr. David Lewis Anderson proposed in 1987 with his announcement of time-warped field theory, the difference in potential energy between two different areas of twisted spacetime due to frame-dragging is significantly large. Even the smallest twist in spacetime contains enormous energy potential and can be used to create containable and controllable fields of close-timelike curves without the need for significant input power. This makes both forward and reverse time control possible within the limits of technology today."

Please, source.

Circulating Beams.

 

It's difficult to understand because english isn't my mother language. I don't have enough time right now.. Do you know if i can find it in spanish?

 

Casimir Effect.-

 

Ohh! This is other of the theories some days ago i was reading about. But i arrived to the conclusion of that the theory is not possible. Why? I can't remember. i wrote it somewhere. But in spanish :v

 

But, something i can assecure (bad english or good english?), is that, EM forces used in this way can't be used to time travel. Einstein theorized something like that. It is in the relativity. TIme travelling to the past is not that simple.

 

K. Lets read wikipedia, i forgot the real reason why casimir effect is a theory to travel back in time. Ok, i found nothing there but now i remember.

 

I forgot waht i was going to say.. oh, god.

 

 

[Darby]

I'm sorry if you misunderstood what I was trying to discuss. My topics are a general discussion about Time and its relation to us as Humans, theories about Time Travel (both popular and uncommon), and Time and it's relation to the force we call Gravity. I never cited David Anderson as a real scientist, I simply took excerpts from his website that contains theories about methods of time travel to get the discussion going. I can understand why you, or others would come to that assumption. But please I ask that if you are going to post please consider contributing information about the topics I have previously stated, as this is a discussion and not an argument.

OMFG! David "Time Travel Research Center" Anderson?

Sorry, but that's a fart in church kind of reference. David Anderson knows about as much about physics as my pet cat. On second thought, my cat knows more than David.

 

 

[Darby]

Demi,

 

OK, seriously. You brought up Dr. David Anderson as some sort of expert on the topic at hand. Now be specific: what information do you rely on such that it causes you to believe that Anderson is some sort of time travel/physics expert? Show us where we can see the information. I don't mean his personal assertion that he's an expert but something concrete that can be compared to other facts concerning actual physics.

 

You do know, for instance, that "Doctor" David Anderson does not hold a PhD in physics or any other physical science, yes? You also know that Anderson claims to have been in the US Air Force but whenever he's been asked by online sources to state when, where, what rank and his Air Force occupation specialty he's refused to answer? When asked to state when and where he attended university he's refused to answer?

 

As I said, I'm now being serious. The reason that I've asked you about why you conclude him to be an expert goes to his total online persona. He runs more than one non-profit and actively solicits funds from his fans. I really want to know why you (and anyone else) believe him to be a credible source of information so that I can start to know why anyone would send him money. I'm somewhat new to this endeavor because I've only been looking into the topic for 15-ish years.

 

Thanks

 

 

[Z]

@Darby, who is David Anderson? I realised there was a website called Anderson Institute that is about time travel, and there you can find the theories of time travel. I don't care if he is real or not, the consequences are the same, aren't they?

 

 

[Demi]

Demi,OK, seriously. You brought up Dr. David Anderson as some sort of expert on the topic at hand. Now be specific: what information do you rely on such that it causes you to believe that Anderson is some sort of time travel/physics expert? Show us where we can see the information. I don't mean his personal assertion that he's an expert but something concrete that can be compared to other facts concerning actual physics.

First I would like to say you've done very well on derailing this thread, and I'm disappointed in you.

I have been quite busy so I haven't really had the time to come on this board and reply, but the answer to your question is that I never said I thought he was an expert. I never said he had a PHD or was in the army or any of the things you posted. If anything you're trying to take his words from him and make it seem as if I had said them, or as if I am supporting him as a full on expert on Time travel. I never said any of these things. All I want is a simple discussion on theories about Time travel and a simple discussion on Time and how it relates to us. I took excerpts from his website, which has theories about time travel to get the discussion going. You seem to be fixated on this man, and I am sure I am not the only one who you have done this to. He has ideas, and as you know an idea can be expanded upon. I would like you to either please contribute or stop posting. This thread is NOT about the man you are fixated on. This thread is a simple discussion on Time.

 

As easily as I quoted excerpts from the anderson institute, I could have posted excerpts from titor's methods of time travel, yet I did not.

 

I have looked, I am looking, and I will continue to look for methods of Time travel, as well as ideas that would help an individual better understand Time and its relation to us.

 

 

[Demi]

' date=' post: 90852, member: 18803"']I don't care if he is real or not, the consequences are the same, aren't they?

If you are referring to the paradoxical consequences of Time travel, then one could say that the consequences are the same, but the Multiverse theory allows for paradox's to be removed from the equation entirely. I suppose it would really depend on your standpoint on Time and its relation to us. If you are referring to the drastic changes that would occur due to the events occurring by the third-party in the timeline, then yes I would say that the consequences are very much the same. Kill a butterfly and you might have killed its entire future species, or something along those lines.

 

 

[Darby]

' date=' post: 90852, member: 18803"']@Darby, who is David Anderson? I realised there was a website called Anderson Institute that is about time travel, and there you can find the theories of time travel. I don't care if he is real or not, the consequences are the same, aren't they?

Yes, you can find theories about time travel on his site. It was a hoot when he had the Time Travel Research Center/Association site. There he would not only have time travel theories, he'd simply copy and paste entire sections from other websites into his website and leave it up to the reader to figure out that it wasn't his ideas that were there, meaning that he never honored the copyright from the other sites and gave the original author(s) full credit for their work.

 

He also solicited money from people to join the site so they could gain access to the super-duper secret member only pages. And they would also receive the monthly newsletter. The reality? They received the one and only edition of the "monthly" newsletter one time. The super-duper secret members only pages were ripped from other websites and had absolutely no "inside" information about physics. The research center and huge laboratory in the photos on the website were stock photos that come with website building kits. He just photo shopped a picture of himself into the stock shots to make it look like he had a lab. The reality? His Time Travel Research Center was a PO Box in Smithtown, NY and a phone number that connected to an answering service. How do I know? 1) I spent the money and joined the TTRC just to find out. 2) I also did some background research. 3) I called the phone number and spoke to the man who got the number when Anderson closed down TTRC - and boy was he pissed about the phone calls he was receiving from angry former "members." In his literature he misspelled "United States of America". Dolt!

 

He got divorced and moved along with his girlfriend Heather Caton to an apartment in Rochester, NY and set up the World Genesis Foundation. For the "time" being time travel no longer interested him. He was now posing as a UN Special Ambassador for UNSECO out of Romania with worldwide headquarters in Rochester, NY. Yup - the worldwide headquarters was their little apartment. I inquired at the UN and specifically at UNESCO. Never heard of him. And in his literature he got the full name wrong that the acronym UNSECO stands for. Double dolt!!

 

Is he a scientist? No. His profession is as a burglar alarm salesman. After he left Smithtown he got a job in Rochester as a VP in marketing for a security alarm firm. When he was hired they posted his credentials in an online article welcoming him to the firm. Education? "Background" in science and engineering. It didn't say that he has an AA, BA/BS, MA/MS or PhD...just "background". This usually means "took some classes but did not earn a degree" ...

 

...otherwise they would post in 24-pt font "Our new guy has a PhD in physics! And this guy runs a world famous physics laboratory and he is a famous theoretical physicist known worldwide for his theories on time travel! Boy, oh, boy did we scored big time or what?!" No mention of a PhD, laboratory, world fame. Nope - nothing at all like that. "Background in physics and engineering."

 

More recently he and Heather had about a dozen websites up, each one with something for sale, several listed as non-profits. Most have failed and are not up at this time. He was putting them up so quick that the back pages of most of the sites still had the lorem ipsum fill text on them. Yes - they were stock cookie-cutter web pages.

 

So - are the consequences all the same? Oh, yeah. They most certainly are. Just be careful. The consequences just might not be what you planned for.

 

Now do you have a little more understanding of why Ray and I have a problem when someone uses "doctor" David Anderson as any sort of reference? If it's snake oil that's being sold, yes, by all means use Anderson as a reference. Anything else, please - no. There are dozens of real physics sites with real science posted by real scientists that can be used.

 

 

[Darby]

As easily as I quoted excerpts from the anderson institute, I could have posted excerpts from titor's methods of time travel, yet I did not.

I have looked, I am looking, and I will continue to look for methods of Time travel, as well as ideas that would help an individual better understand Time and its relation to us.

And that's the rub - searching for time travel theories on fictional physics research websites and fictional time traveler threads. I'm sorry - but neither Anderson nor Boomer (the author of the Titor Saga) demonstrate any understanding of general physics let alone Special Relativity, General Relativity, spacetime mechanics, black hole mechanics or time travel.

Why not cut out the middle men and go to the source? Why not start with a little research on your part into Special Relativity and then move on to a bit of General Relativity? I'm not talking about getting a BS degree in physics. Just a little study on your part.

 

Try here:

 

 

It's an audio book reading of Albert Einstein's pop-sci book, "Relativity: The Special and General Theory" and it is the complete book.

 

If you prefer to read the book it's here as a PDF: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/30155/30155-pdf.pdf?session_id=5b9d74e0687b589c1ac013c36a1afdd76ff4f6bb

 

Listen to and/or read the book. You'll come away with a much better idea about what time and space are and how they relate to each other relativistically. It's written with the average high school graduate in mind and has almost no math. What little math that is there is in simple high school level algebra. Just remember that all (not part, a bit or some but all) time travel theories come from Special and General Relativity. You can't understand time travel unless you understand relativity.

 

(Oh...and any theory offered to the contrary is complete and utter bullshit unless it is fully explained in contrast to SR/GR and shows in detail how SR/GR has failed, why 115 years of observation is wrong and where and why the new theory can replace SR/GR with at least equal accuracy. Not simple uninformed opinions but fully detailed scientific analysis absent crap like "and I just need someone to do the math for me because I'm not too good at math" that is stated such that it can be peer reviewed by actual physicists.)

 

Enjoy the book.

 

 

[Z]

No, no, by the same result i was referring to find a webpage about time travel that gathers all those theories.

 

Simple xD

 

 

[Darby]

' date=' post: 90895, member: 18803"']No, no, by the same result i was referring to find a webpage about time travel that gathers all those theories.Simple xD

Yes, yes. I gave you the entire spectrum of time travel theories in the above post. They are all - every one of them - found in that little book. I'm sorry if that might disappoint you but it is what it is. If you don't understand SR/GR then you cannot possibly understand time travel.

 

 

[Z]

I don't know enlgish 100% so i was being very vague reading because it's a bit difficult to me.

 

So i'm very lazy to read and realise what is going on. But i can tell you I can understand any theory (if its translated). I've spent enough time on wikipedia.

 

What do you think about time travel?

 

@Darby

 

 

[ImmortalxHerb]

I assume Demi is only referring to mr Anderson as a second hand source for theories about time travel.

 

Well I have a theory about the mechanics of time travel. Recent experiments done at the EU CERN station has brought to light that anti-particles are generated in electrical storms here an earth. These anti-particles were proposed to have an opposing flow of time when compared to normal particles. One could hypothesis that this could be a future power source for a time traveling device. Of course you would need an abundant source of energy to create a big enough distortion in the fabric of space-time, as well as the mathematic know how to find your destination and correcting errors.

 

 

[Hyborean]

Huh. can't follow most of this stuff. I replied with every type of tech I know of mostly, but it timed out before I could post it. Generally speaking, most of it falls outside this discussion.

 

 

[Seesaw]

We can speak about time if we know Zero time marker.

 

Time has correlation with speed.