Jump to content

God -- Theories that effect our existence and scientific processes


KerrTexas
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 935
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Re: Order large plate of fish

 

Yes you are and a belief in god, is not necessarily a religious belif, as religions are sometimes viewed as cliques.

 

From the future or not, you're a bother here as you're trying to interfere in our time, not observe it.

 

As any sort of proposed time traveler, here, Chrono' you only have the right to observe, but not in any capacity to direct.

 

 

Creedo 299

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was a poster here once who relied on the Bible as a science text.

I agree that to rely on "The Bible" as a scientific text would be difficult to do. My response to any mention of "The" Bible is...Which One"? There are dozens of translations and most I believe are infused with political agendas.

However, some of the minds that wrote their theories regarding the universe and all it contains were based within a religious context. Whether one believes in God or not, some of those writings contain thought provoking elements.

 

Mathers refers to the origination of all things in his thoughts on the Kabbalah as merely a reflection of 1. The only elements that everything is based upon is the interaction between 0 and 1.

 

Even if God was not the creator of the essential components of creation, this does not mean that everything does not fit into a basic formula.

 

I look to see if ideas or theories can be suported by other elements. The 0 and 1 theory IS supported by our quest at creating artifical life. The essence of computer operation is binary...0 and 1. All other numbers are created from only these, nothing created beyond the combination of 0 and 1.

 

0 and 1 are also seen reflected in many components of existence. 0 represents non-existence, 1 represents existence, and this pattern continues with positive < > negative; male < >female; chaos < > structured.

 

In moving further along this line of thought, if creation is based on the original construct of structure/chaos then I can understand why existence is following two paths. Some are effected by the parts of chaos within our structure, some are effected by "non" chaos within our structure.

 

Alot of arguments and theories are centered on a defintion of terms regarding time instead of focusing on the actual components that make up the structure. If we can isolate the actual structure, the next step would be on how to manipulate or alter that structure.

 

To apply this theory ( All of existence is a reflection ) to time travel seems to fit. If time is a ripple in the pond of all that exists/or not...the question that arises is how one could shift from one ripple to another.

 

We all know that. So to prevent any chance for anyone to really start or come up with a good reason to start a forum. Can you lock this thread? Or put up a poll at least.

Why do you suggest locking this thread? My idea was only in response to what I saw happening in almost every thread. As I did mention previously...it was only a thought. And if someone does present a good reason to start a forum, then perhaps there should be one. I also realized that the paranormal forum would be more appropriate then the time travel forum for a God platform.

In locking any thread we all lose out on potential inspired posts.

 

 

" While my book Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea is entirely a work of imagination, my conviction is that all I said in it will come to pass. " ~ Jules Verne

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OvrLrdLegion said> Even if God was not the creator of the essential components of creation, this does not mean that everything does not fit into a basic formula.

 

I look to see if ideas or theories can be supported by other elements. The 0 and 1 theory IS supported by our quest at creating artificial life. The essence of computer operation is binary...0 and 1. All other numbers are created from only these, nothing created beyond the combination of 0 and 1.

 

0 and 1 are also seen reflected in many components of existence. 0 represents non-existence, 1 represents existence, and this pattern continues with positive < > negative; male < >female; chaos < > structured.

 

Creedo replies;I'm sorry, but because of extra scalability, there is a spirit and soul equation to most standard P.C.s that is not understood, albeit only by the Xerox PARC Palo Alto group, in California.

 

This states by quantum scalier fraction, that where the CMOS holds system configuration of an artificially intelligent system, that is thought to be A.I. based, then there must be an extrapolation of an extra quantum scalier application, known as off-board intelligence, to where intelligence is also held in the electron could, off the main board intelligence; a soul if you will.

 

What you're describing as the holdance for said God via the said apparatus shown in the Andreasson Luca book series, is a vast crystal array configuration, which is almost one cubic mile in size, which is mainly and out of time said computer.

 

The system configuration is held via quantum wiggle stasis, to where a said vast God creator exist?

 

So the main system configuration in this case, would not be invested in either a main board configuration, or within a SIMS single inline memory, nor as in part of either said flash memories, nor within a rotating magnetic disk retrievable array, known as the standard Earth-surface hard disk.

 

If God is god within the latter said such system, then a said God is replete within the cycles of self, as a replication whether God had come from the main frame programming, or as a visitor in-held program, to rest within this housing.

 

Then if this second said is true, is God in his natural state, a true software applicable installed to boot program, or a free thinking being?

 

Wow!

 

 

Creedo 299

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mathers refers to the origination of all things in his thoughts on the Kabbalah as merely a reflection of 1. The only elements that everything is based upon is the interaction between 0 and 1. (snip)

 

I look to see if ideas or theories can be suported by other elements. The 0 and 1 theory IS supported by our quest at creating artifical life. The essence of computer operation is binary...0 and 1. All other numbers are created from only these, nothing created beyond the combination of 0 and 1.

Excellent. No suprise that I agree. In fact, one could arrive at a deep understanding of universal interconnectedness by contemplating the seemingly anachronistic equation "0 = 1".People who limit their views would demand "proof" that such an equation could ever be considered "true". However, those who can suspend the psychological need for "proof" that has become their security blanket long enough to contemplate what the equation means may come to the understanding that it describes relativism and the importance of the Point Of View. Where the observer chooses to place their POV determines whether they perceive "something" or "nothing".

RMT

 

 

corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Talking

 

Not true and not adherent, as the system in truth that is known to house go, might well be a trinary, or quadrary stile of data base.

 

This might even be a system, which is in-held by a super location para-atom, which is not whole based within this time, however still respondent, to the workings of such a database.*A phantom super-scaled atom, held within another dimension, however still respondent to this dimension?

 

See the search words, The Andreasson Affair, books one and two and in the second book, Betty Andreasson Luca, tells of a crystal palace, in a cavern system, here on Earth, which is supposed to house the real God, in a complete superscailer network. http://www.abduct.com/books/b17.htm

 

About fifty times more powerful, than even the most advanced computer that this government can produce.

 

So binary componts, where they can figure and solve some issues, are nowhere even to approach anything like the real said computer that is supposed to housie God, here on Earth.

 

You're talking a cubic mile, or more of pure, refined, clear crystals?

 

 

Creedo 299

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Talking

 

Tinary?

 

Do you realize how 3 is composed? 1 is reflected creating another 1, only as a mirror image of itself. But by combining each "1" , 2 is thus created. "1" +"1" = 2. Once the 2 has been completed, by adding the original 1 to itself and its reflection and the combination of these we can construct three.

 

....................................1...........................................................

 

............................(actually 0 + 1)..............................................

 

................................................................................................

 

...............3.......................................2........................................

 

... reflection of 1+1+ original 1 )........( reflection of 1 + original 1 )

 

................................................................................................

 

Even if a computer system is developed that operates on a trinary foundation, it still does not become exempt from this formula. All numbers are derived from 0 and 1. To try and expand away from this basic principle is to fall victim to humanities habit of over complicating any subject.

 

The truth hiding behind a veil of complex reasonings, unseen except to those that cut away all the fluff.

 

 

" While my book Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea is entirely a work of imagination, my conviction is that all I said in it will come to pass. " ~ Jules Verne

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Talking

 

All numbers are derived from 0 and 1. To try and expand away from this basic principle is to fall victim to humanities habit of over complicating any subject.

You have put it so very clearly and succinctly, OvrLrdLegion! The "job" of matter, ever since our Big Bang of Creation, has been to differentiate away from 0 and 1...as you have shown in 3. This is the clear path of entropy inherent in our universe of matter. The antithesis of matter is mind (also known as the fabric of spacetime, AKA "motion"), and its "job" is to reduce the complexity created by matter back to the 3... the 2... the 1... and the ultimate physio-spiritual unification at0

Mind is the only source of anti-gravity we will ever be "given".

 

RMT

 

 

corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Talking

 

The following is a paper written by Greg Hatten. I found it long ago on the web and offers up possible "proof" that has been demanded. A theory, yes, but there are still coincidences that are hard to ignore.

 

There are diagrams available, but I did not transfer them to this post. The address below is where the full color with diagrams can be found.

 

http://www.educationplanet.com/search/cache?url=http://users.uniserve.com%2F~ghatton%2Flifespec.html

 

Education Planet is not affiliated with the authors of this page nor responsible for its content.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

THE LIFE SPECTRUM HYPOTHESIS

 

THE LIFE SPECTRUM HYPOTHESIS

 

POSSIBLE EXPLANATIONS

 

FOR

 

THE NATURE, CREATION AND EVOLUTION

 

OF

 

THE DNA MOLECULE AND LIFE

 

COPYRIGHT© BY GREG H. HATTON, AScT, MCASI - JUNE 24, 1995

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

INTRODUCTION

 

This paper is regarding a correlation noticed across various branches of science as well as ancient theological text. The subject is life - the creation of it, possibly by special natural light, and this, in turn, to a possible connection to a God, advanced extraterrestrials or the intelligence of nature which makes up life itself. This short thesis details this major correlation that has been overlooked by science due, likely, to the technical language differences and lack of cohesiveness between the various scientific disciplines. The information is interesting and should be considered carefully by the various scientific disciplines noted herein. Please note that any religious notations here are only used as a potential scientific reference.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

THE THEOLOGICAL STARTING POINT

 

The starting point here is a quotation from the Holy Bible (1John - 1, 5) which states: "This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all." This is an interesting statement that, if taken literally, says that the intelligence of the universe (Ie: God) - is light. Verse 7 goes on to say "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. Putting aside the religious aspects, this statement affirms again that God (Ie: the universal intelligence of life) is in the light. Scientifically this makes sense since we know that life requires light energy in order to begin. Without it there would be no life since photosynthesis would never occur. Still though, what puts the intelligence into the creation of life? Here, science now knows that you can look to DNA (Deoxyribonucleic Acid) as this source for the intelligence of life (Ie: the code).

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

DNA - THE NEXT CLUE

 

So this search for the origin of life continues on with a look at DNA. Figure 1 details a representation of a DNA molecule.

 

Figure 1: A DNA Molecule

 

The double helix is now becoming more and more understood by science. The DNA carries the code of life. It carries a biological computer program that specifies a particular type of life whether it be an amoeba or human. Scientists are working hard to identify further secrets about and applications for this knowledge. However, this still does not answer the big question of how did this DNA get here? What made the DNA? What caused it to occur such as it has? Of course there are the various types of molecular bonds that come into play but the thing has occurred with such intelligence. It seems like far too much intelligence to have happened by chance - at least in its original occurrence. We know that DNA replicates itself but how did it get started in the first place?

 

THE LIGHT CONNECTION

 

Now, take a close look at the double helix. It's overall structure, discovered by Crick and Watson, is striking and famous - it seems so perfect. What is even more remarkable is that the DNA looks very similar to a light wave. Look at a side view of the molecule and you will see that it clearly has a wavelength and amplitude just like a light wave. However, the DNA is three dimensional and regular transverse light waves are only two dimensional. Figure 2 illustrates a 2-dimensional light wave which in this case is an AM wave.

 

Figure 2: A 2-Dimensional Light Wave

 

Study of electromagnetic waves from a first year university text quickly reveals, however, that if two equal component polarized waves are combined perpendicular to each other and with one of them differing in phase by a quarter-cycle from the other. Then the resultant motion of each point corresponds to a superposition of two simple harmonic motions at right angles with a quarter-cycle phase difference. The motion is then no longer confined to a single plane, and it can be shown that each point on the wave moves in a circle in a plane parallel to the yz plane. Successive points on the wave have successive phase differences, and the overall motion of the wave then has the appearance of a rotating helix! Hence, electromagnetic waves can be of exactly the same shape as DNA! Look up a first year university physics text and verify that, simply stated, two transverse light waves can combine and become a helical light wave which can be of the exact same dimensions as DNA! Figure 3 exemplifies this fact.

 

Figure 3: The Creation Of A Helical Light Wave

 

Additionally, it may be possible that if two circular light waves could be sent out together in tandem then they may be able to take on the appearance of a double helix. Note as well that light waves also have an electrical field that runs on a perpendicular axis to the light wave itself. A possible correlation to DNA here is that the double helical components in DNA are molecularly attached in a ladder formation. It is possible that the electrical fields from two circular light waves may combine in this formation due to their positive and negative components!

 

So, it seems that DNA is closely related to electromagnetic waves by its shape. Digging deeper into the study of light waves reveals that, of course, humans have been encoding information into carrier waves within a modulated signal for some time now (Recall figure 2 which illustrates one of these waves). Radio etcetera uses this technique. Electromagnetic waves can carry encoded information - as does DNA! DNA carries the code of all life encapsulated within itself. Simply compare a photo of unravelled DNA to a photo of 8 bit code, created by humanity, and you will see the striking simularity. So DNA and light are comparable in this aspect as well provided that circular light waves can carry encoded information. Perhaps they can with the proper antenna/electronic apparatus? Figure 4 details a picture of 8 bit code. Recall the old keypunch computer cards for visualization here as well.

 

Figure 4: 8 Bit Code

 

An additional study of the DNA molecule shows that it's wavelength (estimated at 3.4 nanometers) corresponds to a wavelength within the electromagnetic spectrum where ultra-violet and gamma rays reside (around the 3-5 nanometer mark). This is particularly interesting since these (specifically UV rays) are the types of waves that cause mutations in the DNA when it is replicating itself. Why is this and why do other wavelengths of light waves not cause this?

 

The theory of light waves includes the principle of superposition which basically says that if two polarized waves of the same wavelength are beamed along with each other, they will combine together to become one wave with the same wavelength but larger amplitude. Since the ultra-violet and gamma rays are of the same wavelength as DNA, they may be combining with the DNA, when orientations are correct, via the principle of superposition. This would violently knock the DNA around while the ray of light passed through - hence, corrupting the information stored within and causing the mutations. DNA, when replicating, would only rarely be affected by UV rays since only correct wave orientations would cause superposition. This connection must also say, however, that the DNA is akin or related to light in order to be affected in this way. Perhaps DNA is a physical manifestation of light (Ie: a creation at the interface between matter and energy) or only that the atoms within the DNA molecule are small enough to be effected by the light waves.

 

Methods used to decode DNA molecules basically flatten the double helix out to reveal the sequences of information held within. This looks the same as taking the corresponding transverse wave components (those before superposition) out of a light wave to reveal their original amplitudes, wavelengths and encoded information.

 

Humans have used different methods for encoding information within light waves such as binary, hexadecimal, hollerith and 8-hole to name a few. The information is encoded into the light waves and sent to destination by a transmitter and received and decoded by a receiver. These human-made encoding systems look strikingly similar to the resultant gene pattern information obtained from unraveling DNA molecules. Note also that the accepted theory of light is that light has a dual nature. Light is considered to have properties which make it act like a particle and those which make it act like a wave. DNA is the same here as well since the shape is wavelike but it is made up of particles.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

THE LIFE SPECTRUM HYPOTHESIS

 

The preliminary information, above, has noted a number of comparisons which seem to suggest that DNA and light are quite similar in many aspects. The following few paragraphs detail possible natural explanations for this correlation of light and DNA. These are to be suggestions to the scientific community. These hypotheses are an attempt to explain the very basis for which DNA, and other biological molecules, are created in the first place. It is stressed here that these are just hypothetical explanations and that they may or may not be correct. The fact remains, however, that there seems to be something about this whole concept which lends itself to further scrutiny by the scientific community. Clearly, research should be conducted in an attempt to verify the connections that have been supposed in this report.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The Einstein Mass-Energy Hypothesis

 

It seems as though DNA may be the physical manifestation of light - possibly the opposite side of Einstein's mass-energy equivalence law: E=mc2. Here, possibly, light energy is being converted into matter. One way of testing this would be to check the mass of DNA and determine it's rest energy verses the total energy of a double-circular light wave that is required to form the DNA - (that is if the hypothesis is correct in the first place). If the two are the same, this may be proof.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The Electric/Magnetic Field Hypothesis

 

The other possibility is that the electric, and magnetic fields, created by naturally forming circular ultra-violet and x-rays, may stimulate the molecular bonding required to cause the formation of the DNA molecule. It is now well known, although not completely understood, that static electricity, under the proper conditions and using the correct chemical soup, causes the formation of amino acids. Perhaps this is another natural process which causes the formation of life. It is possible that circular light waves are acting as a template for the formation of DNA molecules. Perhaps natural UV and X-rays, thought to be destructive, are actually creative a very small part of the time while under the correct conditions (Ie: creating life). It may be this natural creative process, happening at the wrong time, which causes mutations but sometimes - causes evolution. This would explain the missing links found between the various species. This may be possible since evolutionary changes may have happened instantaneously by the effect of light which caused a mutation which actually translated into an evolutionary transformation. Hence, there were no intermediate species of the particular creature in question.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The Universal God Or Extraterrestrial Hypothesis

 

It is also interesting to recall that electromagnetic waves can carry information. Perhaps naturally or artificially, electromagnetic waves, of a double helical nature, are interacting with our planet and other planetoids within our system and throughout the universe. Perhaps this is God? Perhaps all the bio-computer data of all the different kinds of life is being beamed throughout the universe - encapsulated within double-helical carrier waves. Humans use light to transmit intelligence over distances so why wouldn't God? A potential proof would be to prepare transverse waves with the same sequences of information as a DNA molecule and combine these by the principle of superposition and beam this into a chemical mix made up of the correct chemicals (Ie: hydrogen, carbon and nitrogen). Perhaps a DNA molecule will spontaneously form to the desired makeup as specified by the encapsulated information in the light beam. This could be a potential experiment.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The Random Circular Wave Hypothesis

 

Another possibility is that circular waves form naturally, and randomly, in our atmosphere and obtain the natural sequences of encoded information by interactions with the air molecules found in the atmosphere. This may explain another way why life has evolved on our planet - as the atmospheric chemical makeup changed, so did the natural encoding of circular light waves and hence the evolution of DNA itself. This makes sense since dinosaur DNA, for example, is more primative than DNA is today. Additionally, it is now well known that the atmospheric content of oxygen was 30% in the days of the dinosaur while it is only 21% today. Ancient air had much less helium content compared to modern air as well. These factors would all alter the orientations of light diffraction/deflection that would occur in the atmosphere and thus change DNA with time as the air mixtures changed.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The Advanced Communication Hypothesis

 

Astronomers have been searching the stars for some signal from other intelligent life. Perhaps, if there are other forms of intelligent life out there, they are using circular waves as their means of beaming information. A circular wave may hold it's energy longer than a transverse wave and thus travel farther and still remain readable similarly to how a propeller is the most efficient means of traveling through water. Additionally, a circular wave may be able to carry more information since it is 3-dimensional. Maybe the SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) astronomers should be looking for circular light waves in their search of the stars for life? Perhaps a transceiver capable of sending and receiving circular light waves should be designed and built. This special technology is likely possible.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

CONCLUSIONS

 

The evidence shown within this document details a number of correlations between electromagnetic waves and DNA and attempts several hypothetical explanations for these correlations. At this time it is suggested that there may be more to this connection and therefore these thoughts should be analyzed collaboratively by experts in the applicable sciences. In general, the applicable sciences are: Theology, Astrophysics, Astronomy, Electronics, Biochemistry, Philosophy as well as others. The similarities between DNA and light seem too close to be ignored. Religious writings from many cultures have been saying that God is Light for thousands of years. The Bible, as one example, makes reference that God is Light at least 10 times. Additionally, one of the old Prophets (Ezekiel 1:16) apparently had a vision where he spoke of an object that "appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel". Was this Prophet making reference to DNA? This observation is open for interpretation but seems, again, fairly interesting considering what we know about DNA and life today. Additionally, the Koran says that "Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth" and The book of Mormon says that "Christ is the light and life of the world". These are similar statements to the Bible which if taken literally in a scientific format point to the simularities between DNA and light noted in this report.

 

I personally noticed this connection and upon introductory research have not found any data in textbooks which notes any kind of similar connection. Is this correlation just a coincidence or is there something to it? Please send me your thoughts to:

 

[email protected] Perhaps life is part of the Light Spectrum? Thanks from: Greg H. Hatton, AScT, MCASI.

 

Now See The Life Spectrum Hypothesis - Chapter 2 (Added July 1, 1998)

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

REFERENCES

 

Armstrong, Frank B., Biochemistry - 2nd ed., Oxford University Press, New York, 1983.

 

Sears, Zemansky and Young., University Physics - 7th ed., Addison - Wesley Publishing Company, Don Mills, Ontario, 1988.

 

Mitchell, B., Concise Encyclopedia of Science and Technology., Peerage Books, London, 1985.

 

Leach, Malvino., Digital Principles and Applications - 3rd ed., McGraw-Hill Inc., USA., 1981.

 

Meyers, Robert A., Encyclopedia of Astronomy and Astrophysics., Academic Press, Inc., Toronto, 1987.

 

Weisz, Paul B. and Keogh, Richard N., The Science of Biology - 5th ed., McGraw-Hill Book Co., Toronto, 1982.

 

Metcalfe, H. Clark, Williams, John E. and Castka, Joseph F., Modern Chemistry, Holt, Rinehart and Winston, Publishers,Toronto, 1982.

 

Holy Bible - New International Version, Zondervan Bible Publishers, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1984.

 

Holy Qur'an - M.H. Shakir's, Tahrike Tarsile Qur'an, Inc., Box 1115, Elmhurst, New York.

 

The Book of Mormon - Corporation Of The President Of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints., Salt Lake City, Utah, U.S.A.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

" While my book Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea is entirely a work of imagination, my conviction is that all I said in it will come to pass. " ~ Jules Verne

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More than one way

 

Notes on quadrary and trianary numericically based systems, posed from multiaxial stances, in para-dimensional input stances.

 

Since it would be supposed that God and Angels, would be out of our timeframe personas, then their main input data scores on key entry inputs, might not be from binary stances at all?

 

The key data strokes, would hail from the supposed electron cloud, so the key stroke entries, in their measures, would be from a parallel stance paradimensional series of inputs.

 

Binary inputs were supposed by Godfreid Whilhem Libnetz, as renowned German mathematician, as supposed universal coordinates, to universally suppose function, to multipanned sets of problems as posed by any one supposed timeline and set series functions therein.

 

God Angelics would suppose their input logics, from a multi-latitude series of concepts, which would depend on multiphased pairing, or a series of inputs,much like an entire symphony of thought, rather than only an angular single point key stroke entry.

 

So the input movement from super-luminals, would be a current wave of series logic, to board based from most of mankind to understand, except if this data understood acquisition were understood as ecstatic expressions, of multiphased emotional logics, thoughts and expressions, rather than double bit offer entry data.

 

Big difference, very big difference, there.

 

 

Creedo 299

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jesus said to him

 

I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would know my Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen him.

 

Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient fur us.

 

Jesus said to him, Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, "Show us the Father"? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

 

Mark ch3 Verse 34,35

 

And He looked around in a circle at thoes who sat about Him, and said, Here are my brothers! For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother."

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Break point on this thread:

 

The problem said here points to the character of Jesus being God.

 

Jesus said, was a social agent also, so there is trouble pointing to the said that Jesus was God?

 

There is also the relevancy of space time social relativity, as one can not always stop safely, to help people, as was the case, in Jesuse's time, if we follow this example today.

 

This is said as law suits and or plans to trap, or attack people who would stop to help someone.

 

>Are now Chronohistrorian and enoch2 working together, as Chrono predicted this change to religion to happen in this thread, or is enoch2's saying about Jesus, a coincidence?

 

 

Creedo 299

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People who limit their views would demand "proof" that such an equation could ever be considered "true".

I'm not limiting my views, but still I demand proof. Why would I believe something, which I think is completely illogical? People are limiting their views by NOT demanding proof. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm very openminded and I'm interested in a lot of theories and phenomena (like timetravel, cropcircles, UFO's, religion, etc.). But as long as there's no proof, I see no point in accepting it as the truth.

Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm very openminded and I'm interested in a lot of theories and phenomena (like timetravel, cropcircles, UFO's, religion, etc.). But as long as there's no proof, I see no point in accepting it as the truth.

And I have also said this before, in various ways, and I will say it again in a new way: Proof is NOT a boolean function. It is NOT an ON/OFF switch, and I think one would be hard-pressed to find any two people who have the same standard for proof. This is why it is important for one to be able to quantify their required standard of proof. If one cannot, then by saying "I demand proof" all you are really saying is that "I will only believe it when I see enough evidence that my gut instinct is satisfied." And this leads us right back to the distinction of what constitutes the dividing line between "pure faith" and "pure proof".Let's try to explore what standard of proof might be acceptable to you, Roel. At the same time, we can look at some "proof" that there is such a thing as a global consciousness that connects us. The "proof" that is offered on this page is difficult to refute, for it abides by the most common definition of "proof", namely statistical significance of the probability of event occurrence. Statistical significance is most often characterized by deviation from the mean, in terms of Sigma (standard deviation). This is also the same basis for standard of proof that the US Federal Aviation Administration holds me to in "proving" that my designs are "safe".

Ever heard of The Global Consciousness Project? They have seen quite a few "coherence hits" that have been deemed statistically significant. One of the most telling events that showed statistical significance for the coherency of human minds at the cusp of a common event is for the 9/11 Terror Attacks. Another terrorist attack, the Embassy bombings in Nairobi and Tanzania, have an even higher level of statistical significance.

 

So.... while this might not speak to being "proof of God", I think it does speak to an interconnectedness of humans, beyond the physical, that some might say is "proof of soul or spirit" in that massive numbers of humans reacting to a global event can have a statistically significant effect on random number generating computers that are completely isolated from one another. Is this good enough "proof" for you Roel? Maybe trollface should "have a go" at these Princeton folks who organize/run this project? Seems like some fertile ground that a debunker would want to take on to show his mettle. ;) But perhaps some other debunkers have already taken them on and "proven" that their data is not statistically significant. All I know is: Chi Square analysis is pretty straightforward and a fairly defacto standard for determining the significance of mathematical distributions.

 

RMT

 

 

corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speed of Light Defines Time

 

This article by Greg Hatten is insightful. One of the things I get out of this article is something that is also addressed in the writings of John A. Gowan. His quote at the top of this web page sort of says it all: "The intrinsic motions of light and time are metric equivalents".

 

In other words, our linear perception of time (and perception is based in observations, measurements, which generate information for our brains to process) is shaped by the speed of light. I've said this same sort of thing on this forum in the past, where I used the analogy of a species that did not have any sensory apparatus that was responsive to light. I proposed a species whose highest frequency response sensory apparatus was only responsive to sound. In such a species, their "view" of time would be shaped by their hearing, and therefore the speed of sound in the medium they live within. This also leads to a discussion of the speed of light and the speed of sound being fractal, self-similar "barriers" or phase transition points.

 

Many ancient spiritual and mystical texts tell us that "where God is there is no time" or that "God exists outside the bounds of time" or that "God exists only in the eternal now". All of these statements are supported by Einstein, who tells us that time slows down as we approach the speed of light, and that it stops at the speed of light. Thus, God can be said to "exist" at/beyond the speed of light, or to think of it in an alternative way, at/beyond the frequency of light.

 

Consider this: Our human optical instruments (eyes) are "tuned" to a narrow frequency band called visible light. How would our view of life and the universe change if our eyes were tuned to higher frequencies of light? What would we see?

 

It would be tempting to say "but we can already see in these frequencies, because RF telescopes can detect emissions in these higher frequencies." Where this is incorrect is that while these devices can detect in these frequencies, the transformation applied to their data into something we can understand is selected by us. That selection of a transformation is inherenly biased by our wish to see everything in the frequency bands of our natural senses. I submit that if our eyes and brains were tuned to these higher frequencies, we would see the universe in a MUCH different way.

 

Of course, we also know from the mathematics of transformations, that when we transform information from one reference system to another, the "answer" changes! The classic example is relative velocities: If two bodies are moving towards each other, you can get 3 different answers of any one body's velocity depending on where you measure it. I can measure velocity on body 1, on body 2, and at a stationary (inertial) point that is on neither of these bodies. And, when I transform a velocity of object 1 measured in (for instance) the inertial reference frame, with the proper mathematical transformation, to the reference frame of object 2, the numerical "answer" of the velocity is modified.

 

All of the above is intended to, once again, point out that our senses do not tell us the whole story. In fact, if you are one who "demands proof" of something, and you limit your view of "proof" to your own perceptions, or even the basic perceptions of all humans, you are closing yourself off from a VERY large body of "evidence" that would actually "prove" that which you are demanding proof of.

 

Therefore, with respect to "demanding proof of God", the first thing you must acquiesce is that the universe around us is NOT completely and utterly described by the human system of logic, which is derived solely from our modes of perception. If you insist on rooting your standards of proof in the narrow perceptive band of humanity, I am sorry to say you ARE limiting your beliefs, and you will never see the "proof" of God that is everywhere.

 

No man is an island. Reality is much "bigger" than you could ever imagine. This is also "proven" by our discovery of dark energy... which is so much more massive than the mass we perceive.

 

RMT

 

 

corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not limiting my views, but still I demand proof. Why would I believe something, which I think is completely illogical?

What proof do you have that God does not exist?

A more expanded response then.."I dont have any evidence" would be nice. Everybody has reasons as to why they accept a specific thought pattern.

 

What points are illogical?

 

People are limiting their views by NOT demanding proof

Roel, because I don't limit my view, I DID demand proof and went out and found it to satisfy my questions. Not all proof is necessarily words or mathematics on paper. God is an experience.

Limitation isnt necessarily a reference to the data you scan nor the mathematic's you formulate. If you walk in the forest to listen to the wind, to view the sunlight streaming through the leaves, to fill your lungs with the scent of the pines, oaks and maples...that is an experience. As I live my life, my awareness of God becomes stronger, my experiences become more fulfilling...so as the person that doesnt believe in forests misses out on the experience of such, so you miss out on the experience of God.

 

At this moment I could deny your existence. I have absolutely no proof you exist as I type these words in this reply. You may well be a construct of my imagination.

 

 

" While my book Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea is entirely a work of imagination, my conviction is that all I said in it will come to pass. " ~ Jules Verne

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: More than one way

 

quadrary and trianary numericically based systems

It doesn't really matter whether you have a trianry, quadrary, hexinary, or a billionary based system. You can not escape from the basic 0, 1 premise.

3 is 1 + 1 + 1

 

4 is 1 + 1 + 1 + 1

 

If you have a trinary based system, then obviusly there are 3 of something.

 

If you have four...then by gummers, you have 4 of something.

 

 

" While my book Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea is entirely a work of imagination, my conviction is that all I said in it will come to pass. " ~ Jules Verne

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At this moment I could deny your existence. I have absolutely no proof you exist as I type these words in this reply. You may well be a construct of my imagination.

I find this to be somewhat of a poor comparison. Does God post to you on a forum? Are you telling us that he actually communicates with you? Because there is a person named Roel VanHouten that posts here regularly.

 

God is an experience.

This is why it cannot be proven or disproven that he exists. I personnally believe that if there is a "god", that he is nothing like the god that modern religion portrays him as.

Why do so many people believe in God? Because without the belief that we are part of a larger plan, then what is the point of our existence? It is what gives people hope to get up in the morning, believing that there is more than this. Unfortunately there is only one way to find out.

 

 

"You aren't from my future because your being stupid" Chronohistorian 2004

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: More than one way

 

Some people are born into this world with tails. Some are born with an extra brest or two. Some people are born Hamaphredites. The embrio has the capacity to develop such diferent traits because of the diversity of genetic information at its disposal. As creatures evolve they do not through away thier old genes. Genes are never truly bred out of a spiceies they are only ever switched of or deactivated. We call this deactivated DNA junk DNA. The vast majority of all our DNA is infact this deactivated Junk DNA. In your Genes is the information to make a tail. In your case the body corectly recognised that this sequence of DNA was deactivated and it remained unused in the very complex incubation period of the zygot.

 

Now we as a spicies were once bacteria. Bacteria have no sex and reproduce Asexualy, Hemaphredites have no sex and some people are born natural Hemaphredites. We as a spicies where once, like jellyfhish, scorpian, fish, reptile,etc etc. My basic point is that warm blooded mamals were rather late on the evolutionary seen. This means as compex organisms they had to have evolved from reptiles/dinocaurs. Everything in this world evolved from a very similar form of Bacteria. We just took our own path, my point is we never ditched the last 3 billion years of evolution. It is still with us it is called Junk DNA.

 

So it is funny that people cant bring themselves to believe in Aliens or Lepracons when in thier own DNA is a Fish, Reptile and Dinocaur. Fact is stranger than fiction.

 

All this talk of science and proof is just sillyness. Any one who understands quantum theory and realitivity knows thier is no such thing as absoloute proof of anything at all. Quantum and realitvity are themselves just a series of usumptions that can never be proven absoulutly, this is why it is called theory. Conceptualy thier is no such thing as proof for anything. So people who lack knowledge bandy this word around like abricadabra and ignorance is victorious over common sence.

 

It is funny that people want to understand God and they do not even know what they are. You are something. You have come out of the void which is nothing. It is understanding the relationship between something(you) and nothing(void) which will get you on the road towards the creator. Most people here do not even understand what they are themselves. One must study ones own consiousness before one even begins to contmplate who thought of you before you were.

 

Dear sir. I may not prove to you that you are real. I have no evidence at all to prove this theory. I will say in time you will gain the evidence yourself to prove your own exsistance, this evidence you search for is known as consiousness, it is what we do when we are not sleeping.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At this moment I could deny your existence. I have absolutely no proof you exist as I type these words in this reply. You may well be a construct of my imagination

And if I believe that jumping off a cliff will not result in an injury, I can ask you for proof all I desire. I can throw off that everything you present as.."I do not believe you, show me proof!" However, if I do jump off the cliff, I have experienced the event for myself, regardless of any terminology or mathematical formulas. I can disagree and select individual comments or words to debate with you. When I strike the bottom of the cliff, the truth is discovered. As with God, I didnt really believe either until I experienced God.

This question is one of the very first concepts brought up in college philosophy classes. That is why the statement begins with...At this moment. When sitting in a room without any windows, can you prove absolutely that the outside world is still there...or do you have the faith that it will there when you exit the building?

 

And..can you prove absolutely that it is Roel that is posting?

 

This is why it cannot be proven or disproven that he exists. I personnally believe that if there is a "god", that he is nothing like the god that modern religion portrays him as.

I agree with you that the God MOST modern religions portray is not quite the truth. I used to sit in Church and think that there has got to be more to this then what the priests were saying. I then began to look elsewhere for "proof". I began to read ( and experience )all types of philosophies and these included hinduism, buddism, kabbalism, judaism, islam, as well as different types of faiths based on the Bible(s).

I began to practice methods of conjuration of elementals, demons and other powers. The results in those areas have been "Mister Toads Wild Ride" to say the least. I am basically as skeptical as they come, and have a negative view on most things.

 

When I first got into the conjuration of elementals, I engaged in a summoning ritual and nothing really happened ( I was also impatient ). I tossed the books aside and went about my business. For two weeks my life was extremely chaotic, I had all kinds of bizarre occurances taking place. I found one of my books and discovered that if a "gate" isnt closed with proper respect, then the elementals would treat you with dis-respect. I hadn't a clue about this fact before or during the "ritual". I proceeded to do a proper close and everything returned to mormal. This was the first of many experiences.

 

Does God post to you on a forum? Are you telling us that he actually communicates with you?

God communicates in many formats. Perhaps He has...And of course God communicates to me. I would not have much of an awareness if I couldnt perceive Gods presence in all things. That is the difference between some of humanity and lumps of stone.

" While my book Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea is entirely a work of imagination, my conviction is that all I said in it will come to pass. " ~ Jules Verne

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why do so many people believe in God? Because without the belief that we are part of a larger plan, then what is the point of our existence?

Good question, Rhudey, what is the point of our existence?

" While my book Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea is entirely a work of imagination, my conviction is that all I said in it will come to pass. " ~ Jules Verne

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: More than one way

 

Any one who understands quantum theory and realitivity knows thier is no such thing as absoloute proof of anything at all.

Thank you for that. I believe this is the crux of what myself and OvrLrdLegion are trying to get across to Roel. The entire concept of logical and/or physical proof is only as valid as the grounding assumptions. It is no real trick, or even a good debating argument, to simply say "I think you are wrong, show me proof". This is an unending tactic, because one could provide a measure of proof, and then the one demanding proof can simply say "I don't believe your grounding assumptions. Show me proof". This recursion goes on forever. It is just as valid to ask someone "OK, fine. Now it is your turn to show me proof that what I am saying is incorrect." This is essentially the gauntlet that OvrLrdLegion has thrown down. There are things (a LOT of them) that are simply unproveable within a closed system of logic. This is the basis of Godel's Incompleteness Theorem, and the limitations of any system of language means there are plenty of things that cannot be proven, or disproven, within that system of language.The technique most often used to resolve such circular regressions is to "jump outside" the closed system of logic... in other words, rise to the next highest level of system context, and examine how the lower-level system interacts and integrates with the higher-level context. This is the "bigger picture" point that I have been trying to get across in the "In Triplicate, Please!" thread. However, trollface has only wanted to descend into minutia and use his debating tactics to argue about a "point mass" issue. That is reductionism, and it is a dead end. Systems Theory is more interested in the relationships between things, rather than the "proof of validity" of any one thing in and of itself. It uses a BALANCE of both reductionism and holism to explore and define the relationships of elements within a system.

If God is equivalent to the higher level system context of our universe, there is no way you will ever "prove" the existence of God within the closed system of our universe as we perceive it, simply because it is incomplete. The only way to do this is to be prepared to "jump outside" the context of our incomplete universal view and examine how our universe integrates with other universes at that next-highest systemic context.

 

I maintain that the biggest "clue" to this integration is given in the recursive, universal function we call creation, as manifested through the basic concepts of Matter in Motion, which we conveniently refer to as: Time. Time, Motion, and Matter are the 3 mutually orthogonal, independent variables that define the 3 systemic domains of Operational, Functional, and Physical respectively.

 

RMT

 

 

corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...