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U.S. West still owes me $1500. U.S. West did other things also and think they can apply their whims also. There are other things also involving the President of the Selective Service System. Do not have them apply their whims here where so far I still live, because I am from Illinois and there in the Capital sits the Statue of President Lincoln. I am attempting to move back to Illinois but that also is a mess of political crap in this Country anymore, so if anything changes, it better be liberals who still claim they can do anything espeically ones that went to that stupid Catholic Schools here. Chicago is a town they talk about, then why did some of them visit it for their reasons because in this State the Senator rather make this town - farmland.

 

 

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Question: If Zeshua is posting from the future, as s/he has claimed, what possible reason could s/he have for needing to modify a post in the past?

This is a good question. It is a very good question.

(I am in the process of systematically preparing my aforementioned response in accordance with our earlier agreement, but in the meantime I thought I could slip in the following little comment in a more timely fashion.)

 

Your question, above, is indeed a very good question. However, just because you cannot think of any other answers to the question doesn't mean that no such other answers exist. A child may assume his parents are being unkind because they won't let the child play in the street, but even though the child cannot conceive of any other reason for the parents choice doesn't mean the child is correct. It simply means that the child wasn't aware of all of the facts of the matter.

 

Simplarly, you are assuming that you have all the necessary facts to judge this situation wisely, when in fact there is no particular reason to make such an assumption.

 

Long ago, mankind replied pretty much exclusively on logical assumptions such as you have done here. They assumed they had all the pertinent and necessary data, and they assumed that their logic was sound, and then they assumed without testing or confirmation that their subsequent conclusions were valid. Those were the Dark Ages. But then we witnessed something called the "Enlightenment", when our civilization finally realized that when the need for evidence is ignored, when we never bother to actually test our hypotheses, then self-indulgent narcissism flourishes. When our culture turned to the scientific method, we learned that science can and does reveal actual evidence. Science does not allow us to ground our view of reality upon mere assumptions, but instead demands actual evidence. These validity claims insure that people's egos cannot impose a view of reality on the universe that finds no support from the universe itself. Validity claims and evidence force us to confront reality, demanding evidence from the rest of the cosmos.

 

Now, all you have done is offer a hypothesis. The only way to tell if a hypothesis is correct is to test it. You test a hypothesis by asking if it accounts for all of the facts at hand. Yours does not. While your hypothesis does have the appearance of explaining a few of the facts at hand, it leaves other facts, other mysteries associated with Zeshua, completely unexplained.

 

Your hypothesis does not, for example, explain how Zeshua has made so many correct predictions. Those predictions are the 800 pound elephant in the room. They are the very essence of the Zeshua story, and if you aim your arrows anywhere else you will only be wrestling with relative trivialities. But explain the predictions and you'll know you have found the truth of the matter.

 

- Peter

 

 

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Most of you don't know me, few of you do(Peter, Sosuemetoo and NiteScott). I am part of this, shall we say, "secret" group that has been in contact privately with Zeshua. Now Indazona, I admire your way of viewing things and how to find a place and idea on how to debunk Zeshua but I am afraid that your theory of "she can see all the posts in her time and copy paste" is wrong. Lets just put this way: there were many forums and many websites in 1996, correct? Can you go to those forums and websites right now? We are talking 10 yearas in the past, and those sites, if they are not Amazon or something like that, won't be there. This site might not be there in 2026. Atleast it might not be there the way it exists right now. Problems happen all the time when it comes to the internet, databases are lost etc.

 

As for "she doesn't need to edit her posts", you are once again wrong. She is connected to us in a Real-Time basis. She has explained this before. Meaning that she can post something and if it alters the future in one way or the other, she will have to come and edit the post (note: she is not reposting it) because she can't go "back" and post it from scratch because of the Real-Time Factor.

 

As for the whole Pope thing, you are once again incorrect. Assuming that you said that she edited her post after the Pope died so that the date fitted, you are wrong. I saw that from the very beginning, and notified the group about it. So imagine my surprise when he actually died that day.

 

Thats all for now, thank you.

 

Happy Holidays!

 

Yeyeman

 

 

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As far as Zeshua giving personal predictions etc... I just don't buy it. It makes no sense... think about it: how could Zeshua possibly get that kind of information! There's over 300 million people living now, each with a medical record and all of them confidential. It makes no sense. This is like me contacting 1975 and some stranger I never met asking if their Aunt Shirley's shingles will go away... how the hell am I supposed to know?!! So how the hell could Zeshua possibly get that kind of info on anyone today?

 

Yeah yeah I know. "The SSDI is online and anyone today can search death records. Zeshua predicted someone's death from the SSDI archives in the future." This only brings up another question: why is that Zeshua can't prove herself on a forum (because of the violations to history or timespace or whatever) but privately she's giving away all kinds of proof?

 

And if her predictions are anagrams (which is a very slippery slope), then she is intentionally obscuring the information realizing it would be decoded. This makes no sense. Either she can tell us stuff or she can't. But she's doing neither- she's making it intentionally difficult, vague and non-specific. Why would you go through the trouble to contact the past only to end up saying "Disaster Looms"?? This makes no sense. This is like telling moon astronauts to stay in the spaceship because their suits will get dirty.

 

By biggest problem with Zeshua is a lack of information, which brings us back to an earlier point I made- from Zeshua's perspective, this entire website' history is there laid bare for her to read... all posts written from 2000 to 2020 are right there on the screen. This means that even today, Zeshua can go back and post something a month ago. "But she can't because she's connected in real time. This is also why she edits posts."

 

Well I gotta tell you- even in the 25th century, a phone call's gonna cost a dime. But we are to believe that she has kept a modem/satellite/whatever line open for months?!! She never rebooted the computer ever? I don't care if it's 50 years in the future, at some point you gotta shut your computer off. I have high speed and a 24 hour connection and even I turn it off every few days just to give the circuits in my computer a break.

 

And in regards to:

 

>>As for the whole Pope thing, you are once again incorrect. Assuming that you said that she edited her post after the Pope died so that the date fitted, you are wrong. I saw that from the very beginning, and notified the group about it. So imagine my surprise when he actually died that day.<<

 

I guess the best proof I can give is the fact that the Pope died on 4/2/05, not 4/3/05. Zeshua's own prediction was wrong. Even if you switch the month and date it's still wrong. If this is all you got to prove a time traveling claim then you got nothing.

 

Now which is more likely:

 

-Zeshua wrote "the Pope will die 3/4/05" on 3/4/05

 

-"3/4/05" really means "2/4/05"

 

 

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Question: If Zeshua is posting from the future, as s/he has claimed, what possible reason

 

could s/he have for needing to modify a post in the past?

There is a 'Catch-22" when it comes to trying to judge the motivations of an alleged Time Traveler.

In the very act of deciding to try to make such a judgment, one has already pre-assumed the

 

conclusion. This is circular reasoning. One tries to judge the motivations of the alleged Time

 

Traveler in order to try to figure out if the person is really a Time Traveler or not, but in order

 

to do this, we must first make the unfounded assumption that we have enough data at hand to

 

understand how a real Time Traveler would think, and what would make them tick, and what their

 

motivations would be.

 

It is the same paradox exemplified in the Book of Job. Job had the unfounded arrogance to assume he

 

could judge God's motivations, but in the end, it was made clear to him that he did not have the

 

data necessary to make such an evaluation. The same limitation would hold true with a Time

 

Traveler. They would have years (if not decades or even centuries) of data, history, science, and

 

culture that we would know absolutely nothing about, all of which could motivate them in all sorts

 

of ways that would be impossible for us to anticipate.

 

So, we cannot even hope to pretend to believe we are actually capable of 'psychoanalyzing' a real

 

Time Traveler. Of course, we are used to trying to do so with our fellow human being of our own era,

 

but we cannot hope to be successful in such an effort if the one being 'psychoanalyzed' is really

 

from the future.

 

Thus, the very attempt of trying to figure out or anticipate the motivations behind an alleged Time

 

Traveler pre-assumes that the person's claim is false. And if that claim is not false, our

 

attempts at psychoanalyzing the TTer are doomed before we even begin.

 

As far as Zeshua giving personal predictions etc... I just don't buy it. It makes no sense.

That is an attempt to understand a TTEr's motivations, which is a priori impossible if she is a

real TTEr.

 

think about it: how could Zeshua possibly get that kind of information! There's over 300

 

million people living now, each with a medical record and all of them confidential. It makes no

 

sense. This is like me contacting 1975 and some stranger I never met asking if their Aunt Shirley's

 

shingles will go away... how the hell am I supposed to know?!! So how the hell could Zeshua possibly

 

get that kind of info on anyone today?

Many medical records that are confidential in 2006 would not still hold that status in 2026.

 

why is that Zeshua can't prove herself on a forum (because of the violations to history or

 

timespace or whatever) but privately she's giving away all kinds of proof?

That is an attempt to understand a TTEr's motivations, which is a priori impossible if she is a

real TTEr.

 

And if her predictions are anagrams (which is a very slippery slope), then she is

 

intentionally obscuring the information realizing it would be decoded. This makes no sense. Either

 

she can tell us stuff or she can't. But she's doing neither- she's making it intentionally

 

difficult, vague and non-specific. Why would you go through the trouble to....??

That is an attempt to understand a TTEr's motivations, which is a priori impossible if she is a

real TTEr.

 

- Peter

 

 

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So far, my predictions of the future (which are much more specific than Zeshua's) are all holding true. And while Peter has run-off-at-the-mouth syndrome over his beloved Zeshua in this thread and others, you will note he has not spent even a microsecond of time addressing the issues he has ignored all this time, per our agreement.

 

"(I am in the process of systematically preparing my aforementioned response in accordance with our earlier agreement, but in the meantime I thought I could slip in the following little comment in a more timely fashion.)"

 

Oh yes. Clearly we see that you think it is more important to debunk me than live up to your bargain, or even debunk Zeshua for that matter.

 

"Simplarly, you are assuming that you have all the necessary facts to judge this situation wisely, when in fact there is no particular reason to make such an assumption. "

 

Trying to debunk me, but not Zeshua. Yes. Well. Hmmm. Do you realize that this exact same statement that you try to hang on my analysis also applies to yours? In fact even moreso since you use assumption and belief where I only use literal words and facts.

 

"Now, all you have done is offer a hypothesis. The only way to tell if a hypothesis is correct is to test it. You test a hypothesis by asking if it accounts for all of the facts at hand. Yours does not."

 

And nor does yours. Before you even try to go down this road in your attempt to debunk me (and your absent attempts to debunk Zeshua), I think you should become familiar with Godel's Incompleteness Theorem. It addresses the fallacy of logic that you are trying to use here. It is a dead end Peter, so you might want to avoid wasting energy on this technique.

 

Now pay attention Peter, and all the rest from "Group Zeshua". I have made predictions, they are coming true. I could be your new prophet, for a small fee of course. Just look how this prediction I made is coming true:

 

12/22/06 - "So my interpretation of what Peter is saying here (which could well be true) is that he is playing a game. His use of the words "raise the stakes a bit further" reveals this interpretation to be a reasonable view. In "raising the stakes" it appears that Mr. Novak wants to continue this discussion ad nauseum so as to give him a platform for his continued "sales" of the Zeshua story, and to spread more propaganda that will assist "team Zeshua" in achieving their self-centered goals."

 

And look here, I also predicted this:

 

12/22/02 - "Now that I have addressed your issues, they can go away. But somehow I feel that you will not let them go away."

 

 

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And so another member of "Group Zeshua" comes out to aid Master Peter and try to debunk the debunker (rather than trying to debunk the hoaxer Zeshua). No my friend, I am afraid to tell you that you are the one who is wrong on more than one account:

 

"but I am afraid that your theory of "she can see all the posts in her time and copy paste" is wrong."

 

Given the very nature of the Zeshua story there is absolutely no way for you to prove me wrong.

 

"This site might not be there in 2026. Atleast it might not be there the way it exists right now. Problems happen all the time when it comes to the internet, databases are lost etc."

 

Nice try. But obviously you have not studied your prophet's words closely enough. In fact I have studied them even more closely than you it would seem. If you go back and re-read all of your great prophet's postings you will find where s/he makes the comments that many people "in her time" have read this board. Whoops...guess you forgot about that one, huh?

 

"As for "she doesn't need to edit her posts", you are once again wrong. She is connected to us in a Real-Time basis. She has explained this before."

 

You are going to have to prove what she said is in fact truth before you can prove me wrong. Do you always believe anything that someone tells you? If so, I have some great beachfront property in Siberia I would like to sell you. You will love it. The only reason Zeshua is "connected to us in a Real-Time basis" is because s/he is a hoax. But you go ahead and believe whatever fantasy you wish. The fact that you cannot clearly see the paradox of her story that violates causality is not my problem.

 

"As for the whole Pope thing, you are once again incorrect. Assuming that you said that she edited her post after the Pope died so that the date fitted, you are wrong. "

 

And this is where you slip-up and become wrong, when you assume. You are talking about the pope's death post, and I was not. I was saying (really only pointing out what another poster had caught) that Zeshua went back and modified the "hidden message" in the thread "You have your New Pope.... Congratulations." So do you now wish to retract your "you are wrong" statement or will you now disappear with your tail between your legs like so many others?

 

This is all very entertaining, but my wife is calling me to clean the bird cage. Quite a bit more challenging than debunking the likes of you folks.

 

 

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>>There is a 'Catch-22" when it comes to trying to judge the motivations of an alleged Time Traveler.<<

 

No there's not. If someone claims to be from the future, then there must be some sort of authenticity to the claim, otherwise it's not a valid claim. If I said I am really a space alien from Rigel-7, would you believe me or ask for proof? Please answer.

 

>>It is the same paradox exemplified in the Book of Job.<<

 

Please don't quote the Bible, especially in the context of a time traveling hoaxter. The Bible is such a crutch for Bible followers because just like Zeshua, it's vague and unspecified enough to where you can quote and twist and add until it means whatever you want it to. It's funny- the Bible Hitler used to justify killing the Jews is the same Bible the American soldiers carried into battle to stop Hitler.

 

>>So, we cannot even hope to pretend to believe we are actually capable of 'psychoanalyzing' a real

 

Time Traveler.<<

 

You might want to make sure the words you type match your own actions. Regardless, we don't have to psychoanalyze her- instead we look at what she said and see if it makes any sense. It does not.

 

>>Many medical records that are confidential in 2006 would not still hold that status in 2026.<<

 

This is patently absurd of you to suggest as an explanation. From the perspective of "20 years from now", the overwhelming majority of daily events that happen in our world today are simply forgotten. It is impossible for a stranger to look up someone else's medical records from 20 years ago- this trivial information gets lost over time. Let me ask you- without looking online, what was the date Princess Diana died?

 

>>That is an attempt to understand a TTEr's motivations, which is a priori impossible if she is a

 

real TTEr.<<

 

First off, copying and pasting the same explanation for different valid points only points out your willingness to ignore the majority of the facts to hold the slim beliefs you have in something that simply is not there. And finally, a time traveler's motivations are simple to discern: you look at what they say and see if it makes sense. And it does not.

 

 

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Ok, here we go. You asked me to 'address all the questions and points [you] have made', and in

 

return you publically committed to address all the 'coincidences' I have raised :

 

I am willing to make you a deal: I will be happy to address each and every one of your

 

so-stated "coincidences" if and only if you address all the questions and points I have

 

made.

The first point you raised in reference to me was in your post at

http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=time_travel&Number=44621&Forum=All_Forums&Words=indazona&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=44486&Search=true#Post44621 , and was as follows :

 

This is all pretty comical. Peter Novak speaking for Zeshua by proxy. Peter telling us what

 

Zeshua meant to tell us. What I think it most comical seems to be a trait common to these yo-yos

 

who want to believe in time travelers. They always buy-into negative futures. They look for negative

 

futures in the "codes" that time travelers leave. In reading Mr. Novak's site it is apparant (sic)

 

he is a fatalist as he constantly talks about just how "broken" our species is. Is it any wonder he

 

can only look for negative futures in a would-be time traveler? In fact, as much as Peter is

 

"interested" in translating Zeshua, I wouldn't put it past him that this is a ploy to drive

 

traffic to his site, and perhaps even gain a few more book sales. "There's no such thing as bad

 

publicity". Heh heh. Profit any way you can get it, huh Peter?

Here you accused me of deceit, immorality, and fraud, among other things. All I can say in

response to such accusations is that I have spent my life building a well-known public reputation

 

as a man of authenticity, sincerity and integrity. In addition, I have been posting profusely on

 

the internet under my own name since 1997 and the entire record of my interactions here is a matter

 

of public record for anyone to examine for themselves. In all that time, after literally thousands

 

upon thousands of my posts, after engaging in hundreds upon hundreds of online conversations and

 

discussions (as well as dozens of radio and TV interviews since 1999), you are the first and only

 

person to ever question my honor or integrity, and, if I might say so, you did so on scant evidence.

 

In some circles that would be seen to say more about you than about me.

 

You also accused me of being a 'fatalist'. Well, I don't reckon folks here are much concerned

 

about the specifics of my personal belief system. If they are, they can go to my website easily

 

enough, but it seems a bit off-topic for this forum. In any case, I do not deny this accusation,

 

but would only point out that I am in good company, since the whole of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic

 

tradition is based on fatalism, i.e., the belief that a power greater than ourselves is directing

 

and controlling the broad swath of history.

 

And as for my belief that the human species is 'broken', that too is grounded in mankind's most

 

venerable and hoary traditions. Or have you not heard tell of the 'Fall of Man' in the Garden of

 

Eden? The point is not whether or not you personally accept that ancient legend as representative

 

of some kernel of historic fact, but that my own acceptance of it places me in a fairly large

 

group, one that includes virtually all Christians, Jews, and Muslims. If you're going to argue

 

against the Biblical doctrines of 'Original Sin' and the 'Fall of Man in the Garden of Eden', be my

 

guest, but this probably isn't the proper forum for it. However, your eagerness to immediately

 

jump, on the faintest of evidence, to the conclusion that I am a malicious, manipulative, conniving,

 

deceitful, and corrupt person suggests that you yourself believe that the average person is evil,

 

or morally 'broken', as well. So it would seem that you are condemning me for a trait you possess

 

yourself.

 

And it seems disingenuous for you to accuse me of 'looking for negative futures' in a would-be

 

time traveler. These alleged time travelers, John Titor and Zeshua, described a future whose

 

'negativity' is beyond dispute. It was not my interpretation of their statements that make them

 

seem 'negative'; they ARE negative. Titor and Zeshua insist that the next 20 years will bring the

 

worst period of death and destruction the human race has ever seen. It's hard to make that seem all

 

warm and fuzzy.

 

Your next questions and points you raised about me were in the post at http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=time_travel&Number=44647&Forum=All_Forums&Words=indazona&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=44486&Search=true#Post44647 , as given below :

 

"In any case, seeming to predict the Pope's death date is not Zeshua's only correct

 

prediction, but is in fact just one of a good many that she's gotten right so far."

 

Now see you say this using the words "in fact". It is not fact. It is nothing more than your

 

speculation, and your interpretation. Just like your anagram fun. For example, it is nowhere near

 

a fact that Zeshua predicted a hurricane.

It is a fact and not speculation that on March 3rd, 2005, a month before the Pope died, Zeshua

correctly posted the European-style-date of the Pope's death (03/04/05) in her post about the

 

Pope's death, at http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=time_travel&Number=31267&Forum=All_Forums&Words=Zeshua&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=31267&Search=true#Post31267

 

It is a fact and not speculation that at the exact moment of the Pope's demise, almost half the

 

world, from the International Date Line all the way West to India, had slipped across into Sunday,

 

the third of April, 2005, which is 03/04/05 in the European format.

 

It is a fact and not speculation that that half of the world uses the European dating format of DD/MM/YY -- see

 

http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/db2luw/v8/index.jsp?topic=/com.ibm.db2.udb.doc/admin/r0004572.htm

 

And so it is a fact and not speculation that that half of the world would judge Zeshua's implied

 

prediction of the Pope's death on 03/04/05 to have been dead-on (pun intended) accurate.

 

That was the one and only time that Zeshua posted any date at the end of any of her posts.

 

That fact alone carries the unmistakable implication that it was meant to be significant. It was.

 

Beyond all reasonable chance, that date (A) did indeed turn out to be relevant within the context

 

of her post about the Pope's death, and (B) did turn out to correctly record in advance the actual

 

date the Pope passed away.

 

Now to Katrina. You are correct, as I've explained here already a few times now, that Zeshua did not

 

specifically predict a hurricane. What she did do, however, was something every bit as impressive.

 

She made a specific improbable prediction that was perfectly fulfilled by Hurricane Katrina.

 

She predicted that 'the next major event' in America after May 2005 would be a 'crisis'.

 

In fact the next 'major event' in America was a 'major crisis' – Hurricane Katrina.

 

She further predicted that we would be able to 'see' this next crisis coming in advance by

 

'looking to the skies'. In fact that is precisely how we did see Katrina coming, by monitoring

 

the earth's atmosphere, i.e., the sky, with all of our various methods of doing so.

 

We were watching it with our satellite imagery, all of us stuck like glue to the images of it on

 

CNN and the Weather Channel and all of that sort of thing. We were all, indeed, 'looking to the skies'

 

as we watched it approach.

 

Various parties here have obtusely criticized Zeshua for saying that the hurricane would come from

 

the sky, arguing instead that it came from the ocean. But even as ludicrous as that argument seems

 

(reminding this writer of Christ's warnings against 'straining out gnats while swallowing

 

camels'), as it turns out Zeshua never said the 'crisis' that would be the 'next major event' in

 

America after May 2005 would 'COME FROM from the sky' at all. She never said that. [/i]What she

 

said was that if we 'looked to the skies', we might see it. And so we did.

 

Your next 'questions and points' to me were in your post at http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/ttiforum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=time_travel&Number=44718&Forum=All_Forums&Words=indazona&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=31267&Search=true#Post44718 , shown below:

 

Despite all the solid points that jmpet made to Mr. Novak about how running out of salt is

 

not as big a disaster as Mr. Novak paints in his picture, Mr. Novak continues to hammer away at just

 

how bad things "will" (?) be if certain "terrible" things happen. Mr. Novak acting as a fatalist

 

also fully explains why he can only look for fatalistic "messages" in the alleged anagrams of

 

Zeshua.

You imply that I endorse Zeshua's predictions because of some sort of personal issues on my part.

But as I have repeatedly explained in this forum, the only reason I am interested in Zeshua's

 

future predictions is because a number of her past predictions have already come true. As far as I

 

am concerned, that would be the ONLY reason anyone's predictions should ever be taken seriously – a

 

proven track record.. But since you have demonstrated interest in my personal beliefs, I will

 

share with you that I am very interested in all forms of prediction. I have studied the field

 

intently since 1978, and could offer reams of examples of successful predictions and prophecies

 

from all sorts of sources, eras, and cultures. So from that standpoint, it would be correct to say

 

that I 'am' a fatalist, in that I remain confident that the future is 'written', at least in parts,

 

and those parts can be 'read' in advance, as history has amply demonstrated.

 

Additionally, in Mr. Novaks continued tellings of doom, he gives the American people

 

absolutely no credit for resilience. Mr. Novak seems to forget the stock of people who settled the

 

frontier of the United States, and he apparantly (sic) thinks that this kind of resiliency and

 

ingenuity is completely gone from the American people. Of course, he couldn't be more wrong.

Zeshua (Remember Zeshua? This is supposed to be about Zeshua) says she is doing what she is doing

for that very reason – because she believes that people CAN make a difference if they are given a

 

chance.

 

Your comparison of generations above is faulty, by the way. The few hundred thousand pioneers who

 

settled the West were a rough and ready generation brought up to know how to fend for themselves in

 

harsh conditions. The hundreds of millions of people in America today, on the other hand, are a

 

very different breed, used to living and working in highly specialized and compartmentalized

 

societal niches in which 90% of their needs are taken care of without any particular thought or

 

effort on their part. They are brought up to be completely dependent on a number of highly

 

sophisticated and complex societal and industrial systems, and if those systems broke down, most of

 

those hundreds of millions wouldn't have the first clue how to fill the needs those systems had

 

previously filled for them automatically.

 

Those systems CAN break down. We are all witnesses to that fact. To our collective horror, we all

 

just saw it happen in New Orleans. Do you remember the horror of those days? For a time, the

 

entire veneer of civilization was stripped away, and we saw our own fellow Americans at their most

 

base. That was just one city. Imagine if our societal and industrial systems broke down on an even

 

larger scale.

 

And regarding the salt thing – perhaps you should ask all those people in human history who died in

 

all the various salt wars if they [/i] think running out of salt is a big deal or not. People

 

die from salt deprivation. People HAVE died. Honest-to-God WARS have been fought over salt.

 

Armies have been built and sent into battle over the issue, in multiple times and multiple places

 

on the planet. Check your history books. Google 'salt war' if you wish; it's no big secret. If

 

getting salt was always universally easy to do, then wars would never have been fought over it, not

 

ever in human history. But they have. Repeatedly. If salt was always an abundant and ever-available

 

resource, like the dirt in your back yard, then it would not have ever been highly valued. But it

 

has been. Repeatedly. At times in human history, salt has been treated just as valuable as gold

 

. At one point the Romans paid their soldiers in salt instead of gold or silver; thus the

 

word 'salary'. In human history, some of humanity's earliest monetary currencies were not gold or

 

silver, but cakes of salt, [/i]which were traded just like money is today. If salt was always

 

abundantly available, it would not be valued, but despised as almost worthless. The law of supply

 

and demand tells us as much. But it has been valued. At times it has been desperately

 

valued. It has been valued enough, and has repeatedly been scarce enough, to make nations

 

desperate enough to go to war over it, desperate enough to send their own children to death over it.

 

And the fact that Mr. Novak comes from a background in psychology is interesting. Perhaps

 

it might be time for him to consult his own, personal, psychologist to help him deal with his fatalistic tendencies.

Thanks for your obviously sincere concern. As I sit here in the smallest room in my house, I hold

a printout of your suggestion before me. Soon it will be behind me.

 

But littered throughout Mr. Novak's arguments we also see a lot of logical fallacy. And

 

jmpet has challenged Mr. Novak on his logical fallacies, but Mr. Novak continues to ignore these

 

points. For example here is a clear logical fallacy from one of Mr. Novak's recent posts.

 

"The scariest words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help'.

 

We saw how helpful and efficient and reliable the government was with Katrina last year, didn't we?"

 

As compared to what?? Clearly this is a very large logical fallacy he is trying to put over on

 

readers if he thinks that the government aid for Katrina was somehow better than if there was NO

 

government aid at all.

As compared to what virtually every intelligent person in the civilized world expected from our

government, that's 'as compared to what'. Our government's handling of the Katrina disaster was

 

criticized and condemned by virtually every nation on earth. No one could believe the US Government

 

could really be so incredibly incompetent and ineffective. If you think a government that does

 

that atrociously with a localized disaster like Katrina would prove more effective and competent

 

with a disaster on a more national scale, then I don't know what to tell you, except 'good luck with that'.

 

Authors often have a lot of time on their hands in between book promotions while working on

 

new books. Those who support themselves exclusively as authors....

Which is not me. I hold down a full time job which I've had steadily for the last 21 years, ever

since my first wife's suicide in 1985. During the years since, while I raised my daughter alone, I

 

somehow also managed to write three books on afterlife phenomena research, which, yes, can be found

 

at Amazon and other places, and which you will find, if you bother to look, that they have not and

 

do not sell very well. I spent 20 long years writing those three books, and they have reimbursed me

 

to the tune of somewhere around $10,000 altogether for my trouble. I knew going in that they would

 

not be good sellers, but I wrote them anyway, because I felt they needed to be written. They were

 

labors of love, I suppose, to which I basically sacrificed 20 years of my life. I suppose you'll

 

ridicule that as well. Be my guest. That also will say more about you than it does about me.

 

I think you would do well to do a little boning-up on libel case law, because it is clear

 

you are not a lawyer and do not understand it. First and foremost, libel cases are typically only

 

heard for published media, of which a forum is not. Second, and the biggest thing you clearly do

 

not understand is your burden of proof in bringing a libel case before a court. You, the one

 

claiming to be libeled, must be able to show that the person who you claim of publishing libelous

 

claims about you did so while knowing the statements were false.

It sounds like you know an awful lot about libel, almost as if you've been down that road before,

almost as if you'd been accused or threatened with legal action yourself at some point. But a

 

little research confirms that people in fact have been sued for internet libel. It seems it

 

is not the forum itself that protects online posters from legal liability, but the customary

 

practice of using false names in those forums. If people were attending a live forum and slandered

 

someone in person, they would obviously be subject to legal action, but if they were allowed to

 

wear masks at that live forum, they would then be immune to prosecution. The same legal principles

 

apply on the internet, and if your identity could be ascertained, you would be subject to

 

prosecution for libel on the internet just like you would be if you libeled someone in any other

 

medium.

 

I have yet to see you clearly and unambiguously deny that you acted as Zeshua and/or that

 

you were never involved in any of the hoaxer(s) that came up with Zeshua. How about starting with

 

that one first?

I am not Zeshua, nor do I regard Zeshua as a hoax.

 

instead of ignoring the various forms of evidence jmpet has put out there for you to

 

address, maybe you could address them? For example, the clear alignment between arrival, departure,

 

and re-arrival dates between yourself and Zeshua.

Ok, well, yes, let's discuss this. Before I ever started posting here at TTI, I had spent something

like two years engaged in some pretty interesting discussions over at the Anomalies TT forum. That

 

was where I felt the more serious TT discussion was taking place at the time. I had heard of TTI

 

and TTF, but I when I glanced into those forums from time to time, I'd never seen much of substance

 

going on, and never really paid much attention to either of them. Looking back, I see that my first

 

post here at TTI was on April 16 2005, in reference to an expected Yellowstone eruption, which was

 

a subject I was interested in at the time, although I don't recall at the moment why that was.

 

Anyway, four days later I stumbled upon the Zeshua threads, and I've been hooked ever since. But

 

she stopped posting here four days later, and that was about the time I was accepted into the Zeshua

 

Group, and so my subsequent correspondence about the whole Zeshua phenomenon was pretty much

 

limited to interacting privately with the other members of that group. But before long, Zeshua

 

went silent privately as well as publically, and the group's discussions thinned out a while after

 

that.

 

But then in February 2006, Zeshua posted again here at TTI, and also privately contacted one of the

 

members of the Zeshua group around the same time, and then the group's interest levels went back up

 

again for awhile, which prodded me into surfing back to TTI occasionally and reading posts there

 

again once in a while, although I don't seem to have found anything worth responding to until more

 

than another month had passed. It looks like I made four posts on March 30th 2006, and then didn't

 

post here again until May 14th, when I seem to have been temporarily interested in another alleged

 

TTer's story. But mostly I seem not to have found anything here worth paying any attention to until

 

Zeshua showed back up here again on November 15th, 2006, because I didn't post anything more here

 

until after that. The Zeshua Group had received a private correspondence from Zeshua four days

 

earlier, on November 11th, the first one we'd received since September 2006 (and according to

 

Zeshua, the first one from her that wasn't an 'automated response' since way back in May 2005) ,

 

and so we were a little more focused on the Zeshua story than normal even before she posted here on

 

the 15th. And so, when Zeshua posted here on the 15th at 1:03 PM (her 'Blast From the Past' thread),

 

our group did notice it the same day, but not until like almost 7 whole hours had passed. That was

 

the beginning of a flurry of fresh activity from Zeshua, some of which has been publically visible

 

at TTI, some only at the Zeshua Group's private website, and some of which was in the form of

 

individualized private emails sent directly to five members of the Zeshua Group. So after what had

 

been a long and frustrating period of silence from Zeshua, we suddenly had this whole flurry of new

 

activity, and it basically got the whole group pretty riled up about her all over again. And that,

 

I suppose, pretty much explains my quantity of posts here since November 15th.

 

Finally, I have put forth another statement that I asked of you that you have also

 

ignored. I asked why it is that you can only "find" negative statements about a terrible future in

 

your "interpretations" of Zeshua. Why, Peter? You have heard of "confirmation bias" before, haven't

 

you? Please explain to us how you are so clearly a fatalist, as exhibited by the statements on your

 

own website, and as such explain to us how your "interpretations" of Zeshua's statements are not

 

confirmation bias based on your fatalist views of the future?

I believe we've covered this point already in this post, but the answer is worth repeating. You

suggest that I am only interested in Zeshua's predictions because they predict some things I

 

already expect or hope to occur, but as I have said before, I am only interested in her predictions

 

because some of them have already come true. She predicted the date of the Pope's death on

 

03/04/05, she predicted that America's next major event after May 2005 would be a major 'crisis'

 

that might be seen approaching if we "looked to the sky', she predicted that Shiavo and the Pope

 

would both die close to the same time, she predicted that Shiavo would go first, she predicted that

 

Australia's drought would continue thru the end of 2006, and on and on. One of the most impressive

 

predictions to me personally was when she emailed two of our group and predicted in advance that

 

another of our members would be having a very bad weekend, and then that very weekend, that member's

 

family suffered both a sudden divorce and also a sudden unexpected death in the family. The two

 

members who received these emails on October 21nd shared them with the rest of the group before the

 

death occurred on the 22nd. So ... yeah, that little stunt really boosted her credibility in the

 

eyes of the Group.

 

You are correct, by the way, to raise your complaints about my statements about Terri Schiavo.

 

Looking back, I only just now realize that many of the statements from Zeshua that I was referring

 

to never actually appeared in a public forum, but only in the private one for the Zeshua Group. I

 

have compiled everything all together in a single file for my own convenience, and so I get mixed

 

up sometimes about what was said publically and what was said privately. So, sadly, I cannot provide

 

proof you will accept that she predicted those things about Terri Schiavo in advance of them

 

actually occurring. Nonetheless, she did, and they did.

 

The same goes for the Australia drought prediction. Zeshua predicted it on May 16th 2005 in the

 

private forum, not here or at TTF, so again I unfortunately have no proof you would accept. I'm not

 

sure if there's any way to lift those predictions from that forum that would preserve proof of

 

their original dating. My guess is there is not. Nonetheless, the original text of that exchange

 

is as follows :

 

Q. I notice that our Autumn here in Australia feels more like a summer in the Sahara,

 

does the worlds weather get considerably worse in the coming years?

 

A. Worse depends on where you live. Australia will continue to have issues with Drought for several

 

more years.

Well, even though posting this exchange here does not prove the original dating or authorship of

that prediction, it does at least finally put this prediction out into the public arena. My

 

interpretation of Zeshua's phrasing of 'several more years' is 'many more than just two years', so

 

if we see Australia's drought continuing thru 2007, 2008, and so on, this late public display of

 

Zeshua's 2005 prediction will still be able to carry some weight for those in 2009 trying to

 

ascertain her credibility.

 

Ok, well now, I believe I have thus fulfilled your invitation to 'address all the questions and

 

points [you] have made'.

 

- Peter

 

 

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Here's the message Randi sent me and indazona a week ago:

 

"Merry Christmas people of Earth. This is Randi the time traveller with critical information for you from the future. You should all see this message on Christmas day 2006. James Brown should have passed on to the greater world as you read these words- this is proof of my words.

 

I have also been posing as Zeshua... yes- I am the real Zeshua and Zeshua is a fake. So ignore everything Zeshua says and give jmpet and indazona your money. Zeshua is nothing but a phony- this will be discovered soon and Zeshua and everyone else who believes in that foolishness will find themselves banned from this site.

 

I HAVE SPOKEN!"

 

Since Randi has proven she is real to me and indazona through private predictions we can't publically state, we are believers in Randi and nothing will change our beliefs.

 

So I guess the whole Zeshua thing is over now, now that Randi has revealed that she is the real Zeshua and Zeshua is a fake.

 

Merry Christmas!

 

 

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That was an amazing prediction Randi made over a week ago- a much better prediction than Zeshua could have ever made. And Randi's date was right too- I just checked the news today and James Brown passed away today. I don't see how else Randi could have predicted this unless she is really Zeshua and is the real time traveller from the future. Compare this to Zeshua's Pope prediction- the date Zeshua predicted wasn't even right- the Pope did not die on April 3, 2005. Randi's calling James Brown's death today is simply amazing.

 

If anyone has any questions for Randi, you can ask me or indazona and we will ask Randi and get an answer for you.

 

I am glad Randi finally told us all she is really Zeshua and Zeshua is a phony- I was getting tired of hearing everyone try to make sense out of that nonsense.

 

 

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"and in return you publically committed to address all the 'coincidences' I have raised."

 

My part is already done, or do you just wish to ignore what I wrote in preface to my addressing your 8 questions? Nice try, but as I committed to you "To show my earnestness, I will even be willing to go first." I went first, so I am done addressing your burning issues.

 

"Here you accused me of deceit..." and then "You are correct, by the way, to raise your complaints about my statements about Terri Schiavo. Looking back, I only just now realize that many of the statements from Zeshua that I was referring to never actually appeared in a public forum, but only in the private one for the Zeshua Group."

 

This is a form of deceit. Isn't it interesting how only when you are called-out on this that you admit these were never part of Zeshua's predictions on this forum? Nowhere did you go into your long-winded "interpretations" of these "issues" as you did with Zeshua's alleged anagrams which were posted here. You just threw them out there and hoped no one would call you on them. I don't think I have to point out that for these "predictions" we now have to TRUST YOU (or your cohorts in Team Zeshua). We cannot verify Zeshua's words or when they were posted ourselves. That is problematic, and it is typical of someone who is trying to be deceitful.

 

"Well, even though posting this exchange here does not prove the original dating or authorship of

 

that prediction, it does at least finally put this prediction out into the public arena. "

 

More propaganda. Randi told jmpet and myself about this. You might be interested to know that Randi has left us with many predictions, some which relate to how she knew you would use the Zeshua hoax. More on this in another thread. But it is all coming to pass just as Randi had predicted.

 

 

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Alright, enough about trying and changing the thread. Get the aggressiveness out of this forum.

 

Take it somewhere else.

 

The future could be changed as much as the Iranian President could change but he does not want to, and defies this World. This World will not put up with it. If you also know other things the Lord is also not putting up with the major religions acting the way that they do. This is to prove that God exists in the end. That could have also been different but it will not be, because the people who are not stubborn are not the ones at fault. The Iranian President is stubborn and is at fault. The World has said so, and that is what he is doing. I assure you that I also have met stubborn people and they are aggressive, wrong, and always seeking their own agenda even if it is against what other people have decided to have happened. In the end, they all loose, and their wifes now have to work to support the family, whereas their affront of putting women in charge (in which case some women are doing the same thing with their aggressiveness) and all of them are ending up loosing.

 

This is a discussion board and not a condemnation board. You all discuss things here, and keep the crap out of the discussion.

 

Unless you have your own forum or website that is the way that it is.

 

Zeshua is being discussed on this thread.

 

 

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>>the Lord is also not putting up with the major religions acting the way that they do.<<

 

How dare you take the Lord's name in vain like that. How dare you tell us what the Lord is thinking and how dare you think you can speak for the Lord. This is problem with people like you- you think religion can replace logic in your daily life.

 

>>whereas their affront of putting women in charge<<

 

Oh I see- love thy enemy unless it's a woman, right? You go about your ignorant and insultful like oblivious to the other 99% of the world, self-righteous in your convictions. You need to unscrew your head and shake the cobwebs out of it, pal. You're the kind of guy who would hit a woman then tell the cops "she had it coming to her" which is a half step away from hanging "negroes" because they looked at a white girl. GOOD LOGIC YOU FOLLOW. You're a Born Again Christian, right? If not, you gotta be a Mormon. Either way you're a schmuck for your beliefs.

 

 

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This is other people saying this.

 

And as far as logic goes, quantum theory is weird and bizarre.

 

But in the end it may be a form of logic that is yet unknown.

 

There are many forms of logic listed in the Wikipedia.

 

Modal Logic is one of those so-called logics.

 

And I am not Spock!

 

And it seems other humans are not logical.

 

They been preaching the end times since a long time ago stating it happened in history before, but that at the time people converted to religion and it was stopped.

 

That seems to be happening somewhat in California and maybe some other people where some people think that they are possessed by the Devil.

 

And if you listened to Coast to Coast AM radio show, sometimes you might think that there is no logic from some people on that show -- ever.

 

 

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And logic is not the one-way street discussions when the topic and subject is one that discusses this other poster and not the people attempting to see what it may be about.

 

Some people have tried this all before, like they just give orders when it is not orders anyone has to take on a discussion forum.

 

In other words, where is the paycheck?

 

Yank your own chains.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 7 months later...

Religion is a tool used by the devil to drive a wedge between good people; faith is a tool used by good people to survive in a world of ignorance.

 

THERE IS ONLY 1 GOD - REGARDLESS OF WHAT WE CALL HIM; ALLAH, JEHOVA, CHRIST. THEY ARE ALL DIFFERENT VARIATIONS OF THE SAME PERSON.

 

EVERYONE has something to believe in, even the atheists believe that there's nothing. That's a belief in itself. The easiest option is to respect people's beliefs regardless of how they differ from our own, and try not to kill each other in the process.

 

The Pope's death should carry no more significance with us than an African kid with nothing to eat, a hobo in an American back-alley or anyone from Princess Diana to Madeline McCann.

 

John

 

 

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>THERE IS ONLY 1 GOD - REGARDLESS OF WHAT WE CALL HIM; ALLAH, JEHOVA, CHRIST. THEY ARE ALL DIFFERENT VARIATIONS OF THE SAME PERSON.<

 

This is not a correct statement. Allah has no son; there is no God but God. Catholics believe in God the Father and God the Son plus the Holy Spirit, which is considered polytheism by Muslims.

 

 

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  • 2 years later...

On 3/3/2005, Zeshua wrote

 

The most important thing, which I must reveal now is, that, above all, I must always sustain a degree of disbelief.

It is obvious now that at least some of Zeshua's predictions in the Blast from the Past poem have not come true on schedule.

If all of her predictions in the Blast from the Past poem HAD come clearly and indisputably true between 2007-2009, would she have been able to maintain that degree of disbelief? I don't think so.

 

It seems to me that it wouldn't have been possible to accomplish both goals.

 

 

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You and Zeshua are both done, Peter. It is now 2010.

 

Your weak and overstretched attempts to make news items fit Zeshua's transcriptions of what was already in the news is not, repeat NOT, accepted by most people here, nor anywhere else.

 

Once again I point out that you, of your own free will and uncoerced, at one time made a promise to stop posting here and not come back. You could not honor your own statement of intent, and as such you dishonored yourself.

 

The question now is: Will you stop your incessant Zeshua focus especially since it is clear no one here cares? It was a hoax. I know you may not wish to think that, because it probably cost you a good deal of money with a certain "publishing assistance" organization to stage this hoax in a desperate attempt to keep your name and your books somewhere above the bottom of google search rankings.

 

It is no secret that I do not like hoaxers, and I tend to treat them as the fraudsters they are. It is also no secret that I do not like the people who knowingly prop-up hoaxers with inane and flimsy "interpretations".

 

This thread will likely be moved to the TT Claims forum, where all the other Zeshua threads have been consolidated, unless there is significant feedback from forum users asking not to do that. I have also mentioned in the past that we may consider closing the Zeshua threads now that their prediction timeframe has come and gone.

 

RMT

 

 

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Here's a (presumably) fictional scenario:

 

A time traveler in a beat-up Chevy appears on a beach. A guy walking his dog sees this happen. Freaked out, he runs home and starts screaming to his wife to grab a camera and come see this. They race out together and the husband explains what he saw. Unfortunately, the old Chevy and it's passenger are gone. They quickly scan the beach and the surrounding roads but he is long gone. The wife is skeptical to say the least. Even though she's known her husband to always be a level-headed man, she thinks he may have cracked. The husband senses this and decides to make light of it, claiming to have just played a practical joke on her.

 

Still overwhelmed by his experience, and bursting at the seams to tell someone about his encounter, the man – with his wife's reaction in mind – decides that the only way he could possibly tell anyone about this is anonymously - on the Internet. He Googles terms like, 'materializing car' and 'time travel' that lead him to a few sites dedicated to the unusual and unexplained. The man registers at one site with a fake name and a disposable email address. He's a well-respected businessman in his community and he would never jeopardize that with this unfathomable tale. He pokes around the website a bit, seeing other people's 'unbelievables' on display and decides to post his own. He pours out his experience to strangers because even his family would never believe him. It's cathartic for the man to put this thing into words but it also creates it's own anxiety. He's observed the posts of others being dismissed, derided and diminished … and he is next.

 

The hope of finding just one other person … someone who might possibly help him understand the who, what, where, how and when of his encounter ... drives him to press forward. In the ensuing days, he weathers the many barbs of criticism. He withstands the accusations and name calling. After a while, he becomes adept at ignoring the posts of the usual suspects – those whose mission seems to be saving everyone from their own stupidity and gullibility. Eventually, the man mostly withdraws from the communities he hoped would bring him knowledge and understanding. He continues to check the old websites from time to time. Most have died off, while others have become a place only the hoax-busters frequent.

 

Then, one day, the man realizes the meaning of it all; time travel could never exist in a universe that was absent skeptics! Every drop in the rippling ponds of time would create much bigger waves if propagated by belief. Whenever a traveler makes a wave, they rely on the skeptics to save them from a tsunami. Each time a traveler did something like predict a famous person's death a month in advance, belief would explode all over the world on that fated day. Future travelers could never risk such a thing. Changing their past with mass belief would likely end their lives as they knew it. Disbelief, doubt and suspicion are the most important ingredients.

 

The hoax-busters themselves make time travel possible!

 

Anagram for ZESHUA … HAZE US

 

Life goes on...

 

 

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Then, one day, the man realizes the meaning of it all; time travel could never exist in a universe that was absent skeptics!

That is pretty funny, Jim. Can you not identify the immediate falsification of that premise? Without making any assumptions about physics, and using only syllogistic logic:

If there is no one available to be skeptical of any claim, then "time travel" could most certainly exist... and in fact it could be argued to be the source of all phenomenon... for there is no one to question any such conclusion! In a universe where no one questions claims, we are all time travelers, magicians, and even gods with limitless power.

 

Each time a traveler did something like predict a famous person's death a month in advance, belief would explode all over the world on that fated day. Future travelers could never risk such a thing.

It would not even take a time traveler's action to cause this. ANY action, whether time-traveling or not, would cause this. In fact, in a universe with no skeptics, any time traveler could not possibly avoid such an "explosion" for it would be a continuously-occurring phenomenon. Such a universe would have infinite probabilities for all things, at least in the minds of the observers.

 

Changing their past with mass belief would likely end their lives as they knew it.

Technically, they would never have an existence to begin with, because what is being described is a homogenous continuum. We know from physics that imbalance is required for energy to flow... symmetry breaking is what the physicists call it.

 

Disbelief, doubt and suspicion are the most important ingredients.

Almost. It is the interplay of belief and non-belief, for that is what arises from a break in symmetry. This is the Principle of Polarity, which is just one of the fundamental principles described by the Kybalion (and other Hermetic texts).

Hypothetically speaking, of course! :)

 

RMT

 

 

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