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Statements Made Up By Emmett (Darby) and Refuted by John Titor

 

From the post by John Titor on 03-24-2001

 

Titor: Emmett (Darby) drew the following assumptions from our conversation and I don't believe I said any of them. (Translation: Emmett (Darby) made it up).

 

Emmett: The universe that you described, that is, one where mass is accelerated to light speed and forms a singularity doesn't exist.

 

Emmett: As you accelerated to light speed in your machine you and your machine formed a black hole.

 

Emmett: From your perspective as you accelerated to light speed every other object in the universe formed a black hole due to your relative velocities.

 

More Q&A, same post

 

Emmett: Take a close look at the technical drawing. Look especially at the left and right end perspectives. Not the same - very poor quality CAD for a billion dollar project.

 

Titor: A billion? How do you know it's a CAD drawing?

 

Emmett: He also said that the mass of the singularities is that of a 'small mountain'.

 

Titor: If that were true, the unit could not be moved. I only refrenced the mass of a small mountain in one of our physics conversations. In fact, I believe I said the mass for the singularities in the distortion unit was much smaller.

 

Emmett: The last time I checked the physics I didn't see an 'on-off' switch for a black hole or any other singularity.

 

Titor: Me neither. I don't believe I said you could turn it on or off.

 

Emmett: At 2 g acceleration you will be traveling just a tad faster than a Chevy pick-up in short order (about one year to reach light speed).

 

Titor: This is the one that really disappoints me. Even you should know that Einstein's thought experiment in the isolated elevator was based on the idea that the effects of acceleration and gravity are the same. I never said acceleration had anything to do with how the unit operates.

 

Emmett: Does it really make sense that his handlers would authorize a personal vacation with their billion-dollar machine?

 

Titor: I'm looking at my orders and I don't see the word vacation on it anywhere. You had my hopes up for a moment. Interesting how quickly a billion-dollars has become a fact now.

 

Emmett: And, though he's never said that he hasn't let anyone else come close to the machine, who took the picture of his two hands in one of the photos?

 

Titor: When did I say that? I'll have to let Pamela explain the laser pointer picture. She may already have posted the email I sent earlier.

 

Seems to be a pattern here.

 

 

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MEM,

 

Titor: Emmett (Darby) drew the following assumptions from our conversation and I don't believe I said any of them. (Translation: Emmett (Darby) made it up).

 

Emmett: The universe that you described, that is, one where mass is accelerated to light speed and forms a singularity doesn't exist.

 

Emmett: As you accelerated to light speed in your machine you and your machine formed a black hole.

 

Emmett: From your perspective as you accelerated to light speed every other object in the universe formed a black hole due to your relative velocities.

Again, keep a couple of things in mind.

First, Titor was present and able to directly respond to these questions and clarify any misperceptions. You'll notice that following this Q&A session we settled on a wormhole interpretation.

 

Second, getting details from Titor was akin to pulling teeth. The loaded question format was the only way to get anything of value. And the questions are, indeed, loaded. The hidden agenda was to test his physics knowledge by looking at his responses to intentionally false interpretations of Special Relativity. He never refuted the false physics statements – he simply denied making reference to the situations. Can you spot the bad physics?

 

More Q&A, same post

 

Emmett: Take a close look at the technical drawing. Look especially at the left and right end perspectives. Not the same - very poor quality CAD for a billion dollar project.

 

Titor: A billion? How do you know it's a CAD drawing?

An inquiry relative to what it costs to make a time machine including the base research, development, testing, construction of necessary infrastructures, labs, etc.

He responds with a question. He didn't deny that it cost a billion dollars nor did he confirm it.

 

Emmett: He also said that the mass of the singularities is that of a 'small mountain'.

 

Titor: If that were true, the unit could not be moved. I only refrenced the mass of a small mountain in one of our physics conversations. In fact, I believe I said the mass for the singularities in the distortion unit was much smaller.

An attempt to pin him on the mass of his black holes. He ultimately settled on something on the order of the mass of an electron.

I've subsequently settled on 100 kg. The mass of the entire device is 225 kg (~500 lbs – which is what he said that it weighed). Divide the mass between two black holes and give 25 kg as the mass of the box and components. That comes out to 100 kg per black hole.

 

From a practical POV there's not much difference between a small mountain and an electron as far as black hole event horizons are concerned. The entire Earth would make a black hole with a 1 cm radius event horizon. The small mountain makes an event horizon that is about the size of an electron (~10^-18 cm).

 

Emmett: The last time I checked the physics I didn't see an 'on-off' switch for a black hole or any other singularity.

 

Titor: Me neither. I don't believe I said you could turn it on or off.

Actually he did suggest (and the scenario also assumes that it is so) that it is turned on and off. He referenced the 'spin up' time to get it going. When it arrived at its destination in Florida there is no evidence that a wormhole was held open there for several months while he was posting online.

He also said that his gadget had the ability to stop mid-course and return to his origin if the VGL detected some gravitational discrepancies. That means that he would have to somehow turn off the gadget to collapse the wormhole and then create a new, return wormhole. You can't simply turn around…it's not a traffic tunnel, it's a wormhole.

 

Emmett: At 2 g acceleration you will be traveling just a tad faster than a Chevy pick-up in short order (about one year to reach light speed).

 

Titor: This is the one that really disappoints me. Even you should know that Einstein's thought experiment in the isolated elevator was based on the idea that the effects of acceleration and gravity are the same. I never said acceleration had anything to do with how the unit operates.

He missed it…and he even referenced the correct idea – the Principle of Equivalence. Of course acceleration has 'something' to do with how the unit works. It works via gravity.

This was also a part of the Q&A to attempt to get him to commit to a specific theory of time travel. As stated above, it is wormhole travel.

 

Emmett: Does it really make sense that his handlers would authorize a personal vacation with their billion-dollar machine?

 

Titor: I'm looking at my orders and I don't see the word vacation on it anywhere. You had my hopes up for a moment. Interesting how quickly a billion-dollars has become a fact now.

He ultimately decided that he stopped in 2000 for personal reasons and that his handlers were neither aware of it nor had they authorized it. He said that he left his mission profile to stop off in 2000 to visit his parents.

Sounds like a Florida vacation to me.

 

Emmett: And, though he's never said that he hasn't let anyone else come close to the machine, who took the picture of his two hands in one of the photos?

 

Titor: When did I say that? I'll have to let Pamela explain the laser pointer picture. She may already have posted the email I sent earlier.

Another loaded question.

You notice that, once again, he responded with a question and not an answer? And instead of directly responding, he tasks Pamela – who only has his word and no direct evidence – to respond to the question.

 

She can't answer the obvious question as to how the laser is bent by a gravitational field but nothing else in the photo seems to be affected, who took the photo (The Training Officer) or who it is in the photo...otherwise I would have simply directed the question to her.

 

Even back then we were trying to identify the Mr. Fat Hands.

 

I agree, 'Seems to be a pattern here' to me too.

 

Seriously, there is a pattern here - on my part. And I've told you the agenda. We were dealing with a person who only gave information that he wanted to give and when he didn't want to respond he would answer a question with a question. What little information that we were able to glean from him had to be elicited by indirect means...through the use of loaded questions and false premises.

 

If you're interrogating a subject who is resistant to the process you have to be creative.

 

 

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The hidden agenda was to test his physics knowledge by looking at his responses to intentionally false interpretations of Special Relativity. He never refuted the false physics statements – he simply denied making reference to the situations. Can you spot the bad physics?

So let me make sure I'm clear on this. You gave false statements of interpretations of Special Relativity and because he never refuted them that means he is making the false statements or that he accepts the false statements?

I'm not trying to be a pain here but I do want to clear up this very important issue. Because if I've besmearched your reputation because I don't understand what you are saying then I owe you an apology.

 

More coming.....

 

 

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Darby did not understand that a micro-cluster of BH centers, was relative to the horizon of people who used this device near them.

 

He did not understand.He did not have that ability.

 

What tripped me, was if the microclusters were in the unit, then the wave function from propagation of their manufacture, would self destroy the unit.

 

This was not thre case, as the Kerrs doublearity, has to must be a projected affair.

 

So somewhere outside of the control unit itself, the Kerrs cluster had to be simulated?

 

The second phase of utilizing the Kerrs, was a secondary field extrapolation, away from these black holes centers.

 

In a regular black hole, for gravity fields are close to the general configuration of the black hole shape.

 

In this apparatus, there is a projected field some eight feet away.

 

This had to be, or one would have cut a perfectly round hole, right in the middle of the carrying vehicle?

 

The gravity slope, which is not and I repeat not the funnel to the crush zone, as you have already altered this horizon, is only a gravity pull simulation, as the outer tensor field, shares some of the tensor values, say if this were a true Kerrs phenomena.

 

Darby couldn't get this at first and kept firing at Pamela's statements, that the black hole singularity would have gobbled the entire vehicle.

 

It could not have, as the dynamical functions of the proposed Kerrs usage, in this case, was highly reshaped.

 

Super.relativty is not a concern here, only tensor field relative dynamics, as it is the action of the overall tensor field, not the race to top speed of light, which is of concern here?

 

I know that you can not appropriate and said use of any government agency, in the verification that you are one of the good guys....?

 

 

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Darby,

 

The more I read you you have written the more I see that we have very different sytles and approaches to concepts and ideas. I'm not saying you way is wrong and my way is right. Its simply a matter of how we present ourselves online to others.

 

Initially I thought that you were just being an antagonistic ass*&%$ to Titor but now I see that you have a certain style that is very different from my style.

 

I will say that one can never "prove" anything on-line and Titor was pretty consistent in his belief about that. I have no idea if Titor was a time traveler or not. If you believe that time travel is possible, maybe not now but in the future, then it is possible that he was a time traveler. Not probable but possible.

 

I think the popularity of Titor was he told a good story. I mean the interesting thing about Titor was not his story but how he told it that made it interesting. There have been many claims of posters being a time traveler but he was the most popular because he told a good story. is story fit together well. Not for everyone. Clearly you saw holes in his story that did not make his story very interesting to you, or at least that's my take.

 

I do find it very interesting the different views people have of "proof" that Titor was a hoax. Some point to specific statements as "proof" while others look at the same statement and say "what does that prove?" I'm still looking for my proof. But if nothing happens in 2005 I think I'll be satisifed that he was indeed a hoax. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

 

Believe it or not, I really would like him and his story to be a hoax.

 

 

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Ren,

 

i think I've got it. What if, John Titor is Pamela?

Now that would be a kick in the pants, wouldn't it?

But she isn't Titor. Without being disrespectful, let's just leave it at...her writing style is far different than Boomer's style and syntax. Her style was the same before, during and after the Titor Era both on the boards and via email. For about two years we communicated via email at least once daily so I'm very familiar with her writing style.

 

(Oh, yeah...I did ask her once or twice if she was Titor. She said that she wasn't. I know...if I'm so familiar with her writing why ask? I just couldn't resist asking her. ;) )

 

 

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Dan,

 

If you had to, you could have made this machine on fourteen thousand dollars worth of equity, then, on some kind of principle?

Actually, you could make Titors Gadget for about $50-$100.

But the question that I asked Titor assumed a "what if." If this was a real time machine that required a high energy particle accelerator plus all the rest of the necessary "stuff" then a billion dollars is a good down payment. As you seem to suggest, some seed capitol plus some future in-flows of capitol.

 

 

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MEM,

 

So let me make sure I'm clear on this. You gave false statements of interpretations of Special Relativity and because he never refuted them that means he is making the false statements or that he accepts the false statements?

No. It means that it appears that he didn't catch the false premises about Special Relativity. Taken in context with his confusion about the Principle of Equivalence (one of the basics of General Relativity) it tends to cast doubt on his understanding of the basic physics concepts underlying his gadget.
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MEM,

 

Why are you defensive about me asking for your credentials? That seems like a reasonable thing to ask someone who is writing about QM. Whatever the reason I obviously hit a nerve.

Come on, my friend. It's not necessary to be intentionally rude.

It is generally considered to be rude behavior to ask someone to post their Curriculum Vitae on a forum - doubly so if you haven't previously posted yours.

 

Dan's (Creedo) professional and educational background aren't part of this discussion...though you just might be surprised.

 

 

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Dan's (Creedo) professional and educational background aren't part of this discussion...though you just might be surprised.

I'm always open to be surprised.

It seems someones background would be something a person would be proud of, unless of course there is a reason not to be.

 

I can see it being rude if the topic was non-specific, like comments on current events. But in the case of a conversion about QM then it seems reasonable to ask to determine if the person posting knows of what he speaks.

 

And now it's my turn at predictions. I predict Darby will disagree with me.

 

 

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"i think I've got it. What if, John Titor is Pamela?

 

maybe there is a way to figure this out?"

 

Read what Pamela wrote Ren:

 

"Thankyou John's parents!!

 

That means John made it ok!!! I was so worried!

 

Alright John!

 

John, If you are reading this in the future....

 

THANKYOU!! THANKYOU!!! THANKYOU!!!

 

I will treasure it always.

 

smileys for you.............. x100

 

(I had more smileys on but it wouldnt post all of them!..had to go back and delete some! heheheh)"

 

She's crazy like you.

 

I would advice u, Darby and Pamela to first UNDERSTAND the theories of John Titor First and then post your views and opinions.

 

What amuses me is, U guys never completely understood the "Logic". All u aim at, is to prove that Titor is a Hoax. And pamela says Titor is real. But what I see is Neither u guys or Pamela never Understood his Theories!

 

I will say his Physics is Completely Correct and he never wanted to waste his time to make u understand his point.

 

 

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Hercules,

 

You seem to have a grasp on the physics of Titor's Gadget. Why don't you take a stab at explaning it to us in the given context of Titor's story. By that, I mean please don't speak to the general physics of Kerr-Newman black holes.

 

Rather, explain it given the mass constraints that he placed on the BH's, any problems involving Exclusion, Maximal Charge and/or Uncertainty that his constraints and descriptions would introduce and how he overcame those problems. If they are not problematic, why?

 

Would you also explain how this mass is sufficient to form a ring singularity and a stable wormhole that is sufficiently large for the safe transit of a Chevrolet truck?

 

One last possible problem that you might help us with is to explain how his gadget works as it is spinning up the event horizons. Based on his descriptions and the schematics, the BH's are burried inside the gadget. As it spins up the event horizons expand outward from inside the gadget. They are surrounded by the communication and control components. Parts of his gadget are locarted inside the EH while other parts are not.

 

How do the individual components communicate, how do electronic and electric circuits continue as ...circuits...when part of the gadget is "here" while other parts are "elsewhere" given that it is a one way trip across the event horizon (no information comes back across the EH - including electrons in an electric circuit)?

 

For extra credit: His gadget has at least four clocks on board (probably five). They are the four cesium atomic clocks and the CPU clock for his computer. They are not arranged around the BH's at equal distances. The box is a rectangle and the components are laid out in a rectangular pattern.

 

In Newtonian mechanics this is not a problem. But this isn't Newtonian at all. This is an extreme gravitational field thus the clocks are subject to the rules of General Relativity. How do his clocks remain synchronized given that time WRT the location of each clock is not flowing at a uniform rate?

 

Thank you

 

 

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Please note the following about discussions on the physics of time traveler:

 

The physics behind time travel seems impossible today. But Titor didn't claim to be from now but from 2034. And in 2034 he claimed that mankind has overcome the obstacles to time travel.

 

The question on the physics of time travel as it relates to the Titor story is this: Is it possible that in 29 years we will have overcome the obstacles we know of today to time travel?

 

My stance has been: 'There is no way of telling, therefore it is possible. Not probable but possible.'

 

Please note this is NOT an endorsement of the Titor story. It does imply that it is not possible for someone to debunk the Titor story on the physics of time travel for the reasons outlined above. And this is one area that Darby and I disagree.

 

 

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In Newtonian mechanics this is not a problem. But this isn't Newtonian at all. This is an extreme gravitational field thus the clocks are subject to the rules of General Relativity. How do his clocks remain synchronized given that time WRT the location of each clock is not flowing at a uniform rate?

Then correct me if I am wrong, but, would you not want your clocks spaced apart at varying distances? Would you not be trying to correct for the imbalances in the field that these cesium clocks are accurate enough to measure? If one clock is going slower than the others in one part of the field you could adjust automatically to have it match the others?
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We can all have the "titor : true or false" discussion until we are blue in the face but basically, based on your logic, which I understand and agree with, the only way that we can resolve this issue 100% is to sit tight for 29 years and see what happens.

 

However, when 29 years comes to pass and if we still DO NOT have the ability to travel time, I expect the titor believers to say that we DO have the ability, just in another time line.

 

As long as I am still alive, I will talk to you in 29 years and hopefully confirm my suspicion that it IS a hoax.

 

Patiently waiting,

 

1stBorn

 

 

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As long as I am still alive, I will talk to you in 29 years and hopefully confirm my suspicion that it IS a hoax.

I'd bet you'd agree with the following, as well:There are bigger things to worry about, and more important things to expend brain energy on, than whether or not Titor was a hoax. I think it is a joke how seriously people like MEM are taking this, and how much brain power such people expend on this dribble.

IMHO, the person who pulled the Titor hoax (and yes, I will continue to maintain that it was/is a hoax) has had the PRECISE effect that he/they wanted to have on such people. He/they wanted to get as many people stirred-up and wondering as possible. It is no different than the tactics of a troll. If Titor gets a rise out of you, and gets your panties in a twist, then he has succeeded in one of his goals, and probably reads these posts and is laughing his arse off!

 

Instead of continuing to contemplate Titor's "reality" ad nauseum, why don't we focus on what it will take to achieve time travel? This is NOT the "John Titor Speculation Forum"! :cry:

 

RMT

 

 

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