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Time-travel Paradoxes!


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Quote: "I am an activist, or did you forget that........"


Are you sure your don't mean "agitator"?


Quote2: "But if he (TT_O) is what he says, he will answer my coments and show proof. I would if I could."


Right guy, "*I* would if I could." Does the word LAME have any meaning for you? When are *you* going to prove *your* story? Never thats when. But I'm sure that won't stand in the way of your coninuing to run your mouth.



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Man Shadow, you sound like a real @$$-hole in that last post you know. At least the others said their peace with a little respect.


I have been trying not to attack anyone since my return. And look at you, you hypocrite. Calling me an "agitator."


So what would you have had me say? I have often times attempted to speak of my experiences and try to make sense of them. If I could somehow, find some way to prove to people of what I am going through is for real, believe me I would.


Why is it so hard for someone to prove something if he can? Especially more when he claims he's what he is.


Roel van Houten,

What vauge stories are you talking about? Can you point one out to me, please ?



Gullible people? Not in here... you must be mistaken.


-Javier C.


[This message has been edited by TimeTravelActivist (edited 15 January 2001).]



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I don't think I accused anyone of being gullible here have I? I've stated what I think that term means, and how it pertains to those who allow others to get away with any argument in an unquestioned manner. I don't believe I've pointed a finger at anyone in particular tho.


Frankly, in my opinion the board is LESS lame when it contains sceptics who keep the conversation going in a speculative manner, rather than when it becomes a forum for any one person to direct the conversation while all others simply nod in agreement.


If a soultion to Time Travel is EVER to be found, it will come from stimulated debate, which fosters creative thought and experimentation, not "preaching to the choir".


This may be fun and all for problems that have already been solved, but Time Travel has not. Not to any degree that satisfies MY scepticism anyway. This is not to say I declare it to be impossible. But I DO think thought in other than the traditional directions (Time Machines, Parallel Universes, etc.) is in order to reach a solution if there is one. The aforementioned are merely old ways of conceptualizing it that have ultimately produced, well, nothing. In the way of any PROOF that is.


I doubt seriously that the answer lies in EITHER of these two approaches. But, I COULD be wrong about that.


Thanks for your response.



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As far as your personal experiences are concerned, I'm not critisizing what you say you experience. You sound like a genuine person to me who is relating what you feel and even the sometimes confusion you feel by having had these experiences. That in itself speaks to your credibility.


Since I have not had the experiences you have, I can't comment either way. It would seem that your experiences suggest that Time Travel is more a spiritual experience than an actual physical one, but even that which can be described as the "spiritual" side of each of us as individuals, remains undefined itself does it not.


Ergo, I cannot dismiss them nor can I accept them out of hand. No critisism intended there. Just ponderance of the fact that to me they are "interesting".



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Thanks DaViper,

For clearing things up for me, and for others on this board as well (hopefully).


Basically that's what I mainly been trying to get across in my recent posts. That we shouldn't go along with what someone says. I have only been asking the questions, no one has bothered to ask.


And that upset-ted a few people, forgive me folks...


Hence my little sarcasm in that last comment I made to you; "Gullible people? Not in here... you must be mistaken." Get it ?


Nevertheless, it's not my place to try and convince people about my experiences. Cause it's never been about that, it's always been about being critical of Time Travel, and Time Travelers intentions. Some how someone keeps bringing up something about my experiences, and that I can't prove anything, so why am I even talking if I can't prove anything my self, is the point someone's been trying to impose on me.


So then, the topic isn't about my comments of my last post anymore, but of what someone criticized me on. Then everyone gets to talking about it, as if this is what I am trying to convince others about. huuuaggh.


It makes a big mess, it confuses everything. I haven't made any stories, nor have I even spoken of my experiences. Yet, it may sound like I did because that's what everyones talking about. Further more, I would like to see if we can go back before all this confusion started. It was when I posted a few comments for TT_O to respond, say about 4 days ago.


They were about his intentions as a Time Traveler. Ethical, or not? Disregarding his own Time line by spilling the beans. Says alot, don't you think.



Javier C.



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In the post that follows, I’ve tried to answer the latest questions directed at me but I am hoping you all may be able to add some insight into something I’ve noticed. In our attempt to communicate here, some of the comments on this board have become increasingly hostile and negative. I see the same type of interaction when I watch news interview programs. The guise of productive interaction and communication is thwarted by illogical verbal attacks and misdirection. I understand why the news does it. They are trying to hold an audience by generating conflict. For a while, I thought that was the goal here too but it appears that anger and conflict is being created on this site to cause genuine harm and pain.


Its hard for me to believe that this is being done on purpose so I have concluded I simply do not understand some hidden element of your collective social interaction. On the other hand, if its being done for no reason, I would understand a little better how people in this time could accomplish so much and yet be so vulnerable to their emotions and fears. I think it was Thomas Jefferson who believed that the only way to sway opinion was through calm, respectful, intelligent conversation.


Weather I’m a time traveler or not, I suppose there are numerous ways to view my “story”. By the nature of the communication medium, I believe it’s impossible to prove therefore it’s impossible to believe. I agree that conversation spurs ideas. If I’m not a time a time traveler, than perhaps the seemingly disjointed statements I make will actually create the idea in one of you that leads to “real” time travel.


((What is a WORLDLINE?))


Individual worldlines represent the limits and paths physical objects take through space-time under the laws of special relativity. They can be shown graphically on an x-y graph with x representing distance in space and y representing passing of time. In time travel talk, worldlines are used as a way to describe and separate the experiences of a time traveler because various laws of special relativity appear to breakdown and can’t be defined on a single worldline. Worldline has also become synonymous with "alternate universe" and / or "time line".


((I see you take things from this world to bring back to your own world. books, computers what have ya. as well as probably the other TT do as well.

Do you pay for those items? or do you just "steal" them?

what do you pay with if you pay?))


I pay for these items with money. Personally, I believe stealing is wrong.


((…could not a TT (time traveler)basically take whatever they wanted from any time?))


There are mass limits to what can be taken back.


((… do you have to take psychological tests before you are chosen? what attributes should a time traveler have in your opinion?))


Yes, there are numerous psychological tests. I was chosen based on my educational background and military service. The training lasted about two years. There is a great deal of physical training to counter the physical effects of distortion. They were also looking for drivers who had a fair amount of self-sufficiency and an ability to function under extreme isolation and confinement.


((What are some things they look for when they chose someone for a mission?))


Depending on the mission, time travelers are usually chosen for a particular mission based on their ability to gain the cooperation of someone related to the goal on the target worldline. In my case, my grandfather was directly involved with the building and programming of the 5100.


((If they pick a bad seed by mistake and send them time traveling and that person does harm is there anyway they can go after that person? I am curious about all of this.))


Interesting question. There is a difference of philosophy between us that should be clarified. Since I believe that all possible outcomes and events are possible, probable and certain, it is impossible to assign “goodness” or “badness” to a person or situation. On some other worldline, I am an insane time traveler causing destruction and death while TTA chases me with his band of devoted followers. However, on this one, I am not. Since both events are certain, their value is neutral.


Therefore, you can only assign goodness and badness to the events and experiences you have direct control over or witness. Only actions are good and bad, not people or things. I suppose if I was a psychotic killer, I could accomplish my mission, avoid capture and still return to my worldline of origin without penalty. There would be no way for them to know what happened. However, I believe that action is wrong and I would be accountable to my God.


((Interesting, if you are from the future, you could tell us just exactly what IT is. Since no one will know for sure until probably 2002 according to news reports. The picture that I saw on ABCNEWs.com of what they thing IT is did not seem to impressive.))


I suppose this question is my own fault. As a time traveler, I am expected to know every winning horse and hot stock as well as the weather in all parts of the world at all times. I was genuinely interested in your opinion of how “IT” was being presented and advertised. Do you feel manipulated? Do you think it’s really a big deal? Do you like the way the news is dealing with it?


((…didnt TT_0 say in a previous post that we were looked down on by future generations, if he is from a "parellel timeline",how would he know this??))


This worldline and my own are almost exactly alike.


((How is this any different from TT_1 making claims and then sidestepping all attempts to get him to show verifiable evidence to back them up?))


Did you mean TT_0 or TT_1?


((They were about his intentions as a Time Traveler. Ethical, or not? Disregarding his own Time line by spilling the beans. Says alot, don't you think.))


How do you think my actions here affect my own worldline?


((P.S. You might be wondering why the new name. Well I got the idea for this name after playing this cool RPG game. "The Wheel of Time." Just thought I use a new name, as a change of pace.))


Is the “The Wheel of Time” one of those “fantasy” role-playing games you mentioned earlier?



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Ok man, I have to had it to you. Your smart, and know how to please a crowd. But you have to admit that your coming here and saying your a Time Traveler is a bit suspect. I know, that you have a hidden agenda. You have not made clear your motives, and are only giving us very little proof. Why you holding back...?


I still believe your buying into people's fascination. Your a good study in communications and science, and know how to handle upsets very well.


(You sure your not some corporate PR guy).?


Which is probably why so many people believe your story. But your not Anti-Time Travel like me. None of you have ever been manipulated by a Time Travelers plan for 21 years.


Which is not to say they are, and you just don't know it.


Am I right, TT_0? You do alot of work in the background of our society, admit it. Adjusting things to fit your futures agenda. That's the only reason you can ever have an interest in the past.


You know, I don't know why you keep making me look like the bad guy here. After all, what have I done but just ask you some critical questions. And you respond by saying that all future TTA are trying to murder you. I'm not you, I believe in a criminal justice system. I wasn't trained to kill, like you were.


What are your personal beliefs TT_0? You said you believe in God, which one? Honestly, do you think the ends justifies the means? Don't you have people regulating Time Travel?


You said your self you don't care what happens to your worldline. You don't care about your actions, and what they will affect?


You are a cheater of life... What ever happened to preservering against adversity? You take back home the solution, without trying to handle it there. And in that, you threaten to change billions of lives. And that strikes you as no big deal?


And what's worse, I am the only one on this board who has enough moral sense to see that as wrong. Watch, someone is going to attack me now.


So is there any such thing as wrong for you TT_0 while in the past that you are forbidden to do, or is it all just a free for all?


Yes, actually The Wheel of Time is a fantasy role playing game. Don't you have Final Fantasy XVIII out in 2036?



Javier C.



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RE: Ugliness on the board:


TT_O shouldn't an historian-anthropolagist, even an amateur, be a bit more up to speed on psychology? There is no big mystery here. It is simple. Some people get off on telling others what to do. Others get sick of listening to it. I'd like to say here that the 'some people' I refer to, know who they are. But I'm not sure they do.


Here is a theory for you. "This whole board is a communist plot to send thinking people home doubting their sanity". (And this where you say "you don't know the half of it pal ! ")



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Although I do not post here often, I do enjoy the thoughtful discussions and mind challenging questions that arise...


The spiritual aspect of TT_O 's discussions and presentations have been especially interesting, given my interests.


*smiling* I chuckled at the perception of time and the knowing not with God... some concepts are indeed timeless.


Everyone needs a devil's advocate...someone to muddy up the waters...it creates an atmosphere where belief is supported by the interaction of faith, a sense of knowing, and the physical reality we each experience daily...


If we are not challenged and nudged to think beyond accepted thought, then we can not create opportunities to broaden our scope of thinking... thus experiencing.


Perhaps we do not all agree on the process by which the challenge and nudge are laid down...yet there is inherent value in all things.


Be safe and dream sweetly.





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For me, this is all beginning to work now in the manner I hope everyone has intended it to. Yup. It's gettin' "curiouser and curiouser".


Enforcer: (cool name. Choose what you like, I'll run with that. And I think I'll stay DaViper for a while.)


You are right. Once everyone comes around to admitting that none of us has the answer, we can cut to the chase of REALLY seeing if we can find one. And I know we ALL would like to find one or we wouldn't be here in the first place would we.



I stand corrected. I mis-typed your handle and it came out TT_1 by mistake. I appologize for that.


I also stand by my assesment of what I see you doing. No offense. I've checked your web site and will say that I think the SITE is well done and interesting. But I cannot surrender my opinion that it is Fiction as you have always intended it to be. And not that bad at that.


I see you as a person who is utilizing fiction to express your opinions as to how the problem of time Travel COULD be solved. OK. As I've said before, this board itself is presented as "fiction" in the first place, as it states right on the Home Page. But... does THAT stop us from contemplating the possibilities that we ALL would like to explore. On the contrary! It stimulates them. The Web Authors here have accomplished their goal in getting the topic off the ground for discussion. It's a great site. I personally have been visiting it for over two years now under various handles.


(I'll stick with "DaViper" for now.)




Since (to me anyway), the topics of "Time Machines" and "Parallel Universes" have been beaten to death, how about exploring other possibilities as to a possible solution, since these two ALWAYS lead to SOME form of Paradox which I hope we all agree CAN'T be so by the very nature of the simple fact that the Universe contains NO Paradoxes.


In short, I think there is something awry with ALL of our thinking, including MINE. But I can't put my finger on just what it is.


Peace to all.



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Just some commentary...



I don't know where you learned it, but it sure is affective.



Thanks for reminding me, I gotta find the EMU file for it.



Do you know where I can find out what station he will be airing on in my location?


TT_0, care to answer my questions this time?I made sure to put lots of ??? so I wouldn't get excuses that they weren't any.


And Shadow, I don't know what to think about you. You sound awfully cold.


Good night,

Javier C.



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(( I know, that you have a hidden agenda. You have not made clear your motives, and are only giving us very little proof. Why you holding back...?))


Rest assured there is nothing I have planned in my “hidden agenda” that will make anyone’s life any worse than it already might be.


((Am I right, TT_0? You do alot of work in the background of our society, admit it. Adjusting things to fit your futures agenda. That's the only reason you can ever have an interest in the past.))


I plan to leave soon. There is nothing I can do here that will affect my home. My goals are based on the love I have for my family. Actually, my inertest in the past is a result of going through piles of half burned books and magazines left over from a war started by people you share this planet with right now. On that note, perhaps its more interesting to consider what I won’t be doing to try and stop that war.


((I wasn't trained to kill, like you were.))


---> Well it's a good thing I got injured in the Army, or else that might have been my fate as well. <--- I could have sworn you mentioned you were in the army?


((What are your personal beliefs TT_0? You said you believe in God, which one? Honestly, do you think the ends justifies the means? Don't you have people regulating Time Travel?))


How many Gods are there? I believe in just one. What are your suggestions for regulating time? Perhaps a list of your “time rights” would be something to spark conversation on the board.


((You said your self you don't care what happens to your worldline. You don't care about your actions, and what they will affect?))


I’m not sure I ever said I didn’t care about my own worldline. If you could find and quote that, I would appreciate it.


((You are a cheater of life... What ever happened to preservering against adversity? You take back home the solution, without trying to handle it there. And in that, you threaten to change billions of lives. And that strikes you as no big deal?))


I think I understand what you’re asking. I’m just guessing that “cheater of life” is not a compliment. I can’t think of a reason why my actions would be immoral and someone else’s would not. You suggest I’m capable of changing lives. I suggest that I’m no more capable of that than you are. I’m just not so sure you recognize your own potential. You don’t need a time machine to save or destroy people. If there was another person doing the exact same things I was but they didn’t have a time machine, would they be putting billions of lives at stake and suffer your judgment?


((So is there any such thing as wrong for you TT_0 while in the past that you are forbidden to do, or is it all just a free for all?))


Yes, I believe in wrong and right. I judge my actions based on God’s law. Is it wrong for me to murder? Yes it is. Is it wrong for me to teach someone how to defend themselves and they commit murder? No, I am not their keeper. Since I am leaving, I will be incapable of causing any harm. But, what damage will you do with anything I have said?


((Yes, actually The Wheel of Time is a fantasy role playing game. Don't you have Final Fantasy XVIII out in 2036?))


Yes, we have games.


((TT_O shouldn't an historian-anthropolagist, even an amateur, be a bit more up to speed on psychology?))


I apologize. I am learning all the time and I wish I were smarter too. You must remember that reading about a society is one thing and being exposed to it is another.


((TT_0, care to answer my questions this time?I made sure to put lots of ??? so I wouldn't get excuses that they weren't any.))


I was not trying to offer excuses. Please forgive my ignorance. I was unaware that question marks were optional.



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Well, it looks like if anybody has any questions to ask TTO...now would be the time to do so.

I have learned so much over the past few months. with the added info I have gained I have went back and reread books such as hyperspace and string theories and blackhole books I had and things are really starting to fall into place with the additional info I have gathered. pieces are being fit together to create a beautiful picture of the nature of time. it is funny as I am reading some of the old info I had and now the new I will find myself saying "oh...now I understand..."

I am very busy studying at this time.

and yes,Daviper, always searching for the truth in new theories and beyond.as I have always said "science fiction of today may become tomorrows science fact."


I am sorry that you did not respond to my e-mail for an opportunity to chat with TTO,Mr. Schasteen and time 02112.perhaps you were busy. I tried to get a hold of you both yesterday.

I have had wonderful chats with TTO.

last night djayr42(Joe)and I talked to him for I believe over three hours. He is a wonderful person and I am sorry you may never get to know that.





[This message has been edited by pamela (edited 16 January 2001).]



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Well, I must say this thread has piqued my interest. I have a few questions for TT_0:


First, where does your interest in the (our) U.S. Constitution stem from?


Why do you think it is so vital for us to read and understand it?


Second, do you not like your "new" Constitution?


Or feel that it is not as effective as the original?


Third, you keep saying that you will be going back to your worldline soon, how soon will this be?


Can you give a specific day? Or week?


I have many questions for you and would like to be able to know how much time I have left to ask them of you.




Could you please space out your posts to make it easier to read - it is very difficult to read a post that is in one large block of words compared to one that has each thought, or idea, seperated by spaces.




Edited for clarification


[This message has been edited by Prophet (edited 16 January 2001).]



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I don't think you got my point... But your leaving, and I'm tired of telling you. So I just don't care anymore.


Yes, I was in the Army... But I was injured, I didn't finish going through BCT. In addition, I guess you can say I had a change in perspective about life, after my accident.


I don't wish to comment any further about that...


And as for you saying you didn't care about your worldline, here it is, you saying it.


Excerpt from: Time-travel Paradoxes! (Page 2)




unregistered posted 12 November 2000 16:41


(Have you considered the possible adverse consequences the person might face that you had post them for you since you remain covert? or don't you care since it is not your world line. what about the people that read the information and attempt to build one? what if they get injured in the process because they are not knowledgeable enough to handle the forces they are playing with at this "time".)


Yes, I have considered it but it is very easy to remain hidden behind a veil of disbelief. The people who understand what they are seeing are not aggressive. Everyone else just finds them entertaining. The obvious first answer is that the only world line of consequence is my own and I don’t care what happens here. That however, is not the case. I have shown these documents in order that people might consider the possibility. I do not expect people to believe them.




Javier C.



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Is it physically possible for you to get back to THIS time line once you leave?


If all 7 Billion of us here each had our own time machine do you think that would we would end up trashing the rest of the local worldlines?


Recomended movies:

Arthur C. Clarks' 2001

WaterWorld (Kevin Kosner)

Dances With Wolves

Chrimson Tide


Forest Gump

Little Big Man


There are a lot of good movies of substance. Good movies like good books are more than a mere passtime. I've got one heck of a book collection that I probably won't need come 2036. Any suggestions on where to drop it off? (It weighs about 3000 pounds.)


Watch out for the time cops on your way out.



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To TT_0, You have made a difference. You have at least opened some people's eyes to the possibility of time travel and what is going on around them. But like I said earlier, you will leave, and the memory will fade. Some peoples eyes will not stay open very long. Other people though, will grasp the spark, hopefully making a difference. I think this has been a positive experiance. I hope it has been for you too.

Safe trip home, and God speed. Maybe we will talk again some time ;~)




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To T-T-A,


Let me just say this.


Even before you came here criticizing this foumn and T-T-O , i was here from the beginning, asking the same questions. I have been watching this forumn and watching the same questions being repeated over and over to T-T-O.....


He doesn't answer your questions because there is no reason to. Read back and you'll see what i mean. He/She has told us before to read his previous posts for answers and yes, there they are.


To R-Grunt, Could you please, in future ,write your answers in paragraphs?

Much easier to read, I might say. Thank you.





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Well excuse me... I just saw the post the first day I got back to this board, and jumped right in to respond. As I'm sure that's what most people in this forum do anyway's, am I right?


I read all his past post though. And that's why I cut and paste something that he said. The man said to quote him, or did you not read that part...? He still hasn't replied.


You seem to know him pretty well, are you his friend or something? I tell you, a man can't get a decent unbiased review in this board now a days.


Well maybe from DaViper, he doesn't sound like he's on anyones side.


Good night,

-Javier C.


P.S. I'll bet you the next topic after my post will be on sides. Care to place any bets who will take a crack at it?



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n the future, sociologists spend a great of time discussing the collective mentality before the war that led to the demise of “Homo Materia”. Many of them point to an experiment that was done in the 1970’s or 1980’s. The experiment isolated various sizes of rat populations in varying cage sizes with varying food and cleaning schedules. It was discovered that no matter what, there was a certain ratio of rats to space that once overtaken by population would always lead to aggressive and destructive behavior in the rats until enough of them had died or been killed to get back under the ratio. This was true even when the rats that were given plenty of food and had their cage cleaned every day.


Besides the occasional school or office shooting and violent video game, I can’t help but think about that experiment every time I see someone stranded on the highway or walking on the side of the road carrying an empty gas can. I ask my parents why we don’t stop and help and they tell me they are afraid of being attacked and of the possible consequences of helping someone they don’t know. I would respond by pointing out that it’s our duty to help someone, not just because it’s the right thing to do, but because we can never know that person’s true worth and the risk of losing then is too great. I didn’t fully understand their stubbornness until I saw a news story about a doctor who was sued for applying emergency first aid to an accident victim who died. I believe your society is biologically geared for self-destruction. However, I feel strongly that does not excuse me from my responsibilities as a temporary member of this community.


Although TTA is a bit quirky and eccentric, he does belong to us. He’s this community’s quirky and eccentric guy and although he can be aggravating, I can’t help but feel protective of him. As I’m sure most of us believe, under all of his postings, he has some interesting things to say. When I first read one of his postings, I first shake my head and then I begin to question my own understanding of not only the English language but of the real meaning of the odd things he brings up. If it’s done on purpose, it’s quite effective. I am often forced to go back through the dictionary or grammar handbook just to make sure there’s not some obscure punctuation or grammar rule I was unaware of.


As an example, when I read his mission statement, I do think the effect of not writing a complete sentence before the period is dramatic but I am forced to examine the word “it’s” and wonder if it represents the contraction for “it is” or if it means the possessive of the understood subject from the first part.


Please understand, I do not point this out to cause harm. People are often first judged by the way they write and speak. I can’t help but think a great deal of anger is a result of frustration to make ourselves understood. Throughout our lives, a real understanding of how to communicate would help anyone express themselves better. As I find myself double checking how to use the English language I only recommend that TTA do the same. I am quite anxious to his ideas or set of rules on the use of time travel.



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