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Osama bin Laden


TimeLord
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TL,

 

I have no problem with the fact that we took OBL out. I do have a problem with the fact that had the sitting President been a Republican we would, today, have a call in the House for impeachment proceedings to begin.

 

In the past month our President has taken action twice that, at least on their faces, are unconstitutional.

 

We took military action in Libya without a "declaration of war" by the House. The US House of Representatives were never involved in the decision to take military action on the otherwise soverign nation of Libya. The Constitution doesn''t specify the manner in which the House makes the declaration but every past President has without fail received the approval of the House to send our military into action in a foreign country.

 

Taking out OBL occured in Pakistan. Crossing an international border to take out anyone out requires what the Constitution calls "letters of marque and reprisal" in Article I. The word "marque" comes from the German word "mark" - like the unit of German currency. "Mark", in German, refers to the border or soverignty of a nation. I do hope that Seal Team 6 had written orders signed by the President, not a Captain or Admiral, authorizing the action. Politics being what it is, the government can easily make political scapegoats of the Sailors and Marines who took this action if public or international opinion turns against us.

 

We have a Constitution. It is not, as most of us have been taught in school, a "living and breathing document" that can be changed on a whim as the fortunes of politics or public opinion change. If that were actually the case we would have no Constitutional Rights guarenteed. Our "rights" would be subject to the whim of changing political and public opinion.

 

OBL is dead. Thank God. Now we need to be prepared for the backlash. Americans will die based onthis action. The question is are you prepared for that American to be you or one of yours?

 

 

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As I said, I have no problem with the action. But let me ask you this: had the President been say, George Bush, would you ha e phrased your last post naming him specifically as the culprit? If so why did you not name the current President BHO?

 

Barry called this shot - it is his OP. It's odd that no one is calling him out on it.

 

One last time - no problem here with the call. Just musing at the inconsistency of the critics.

 

 

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TL;

 

What you call vicious and violent I call Bravery and Commitment

 

Osama was a wanted international terrorist. He was wanted Dead or Alive. He resisted as he said he would and you don't have to be holding a gun to resist and he was killed. Early intelligence reported that he would wear a suicide bomb vest and detonate it before being captured. He may not have been wearing it but perhaps he reached for it or a weapon. We may never know all the details but more may yet come out.

 

As far as being 'vicious and addicted to violence', which again I call Bravery and Commitment. YOU'RE WELCOME. We used it once before against a guy named Hitler.

 

 

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Who else thinks that it's terrible that people are celebrating Osama's murder? I understand that he's blamed for 9/11, etc. But being happy about another human being's death is disgusting. Humans truly are blood-thirsty and evil beings.

Yes, I agree with you that it is terrible that people are celebrating Osama's death and was thinking the same as what you posted.

However, I also believe it was something that had to be done.

 

IF you had family members/loved ones that lost their lives because of the actions of a particular person on Sept. 11th, what would you do ?

 

Easy to critic what some politicians do( writing "American's" is somewhat inaccurate, since not ALL Americans believe in the same things nor condone's every politicians choice ).

 

However, seems like damned if you do, damned if you don't type of scenario's. Obama hesitated with regards to Libya, and has been accused of dragging his feet and waiting too long as the so-called rebels whined on a consistent basis for help from the West.

 

Reading the opinion polls on the actions of the Government of the United States, most of the people of the U.S. are "not" happy and are demanding that the troops be pulled from Iraq and Afganistan, and that the U.S. Government should have left/leave Libya alone.

 

Tough one to call... what would you do if you have the capacity to respond to a neighbors ( really - anyone that is weaker than you ) request for assistance if wolves have entered his home and are killing his family ? Tell him to buzz off and leave you alone?

 

OR

 

Do you respond to his request and go over to his house to confront the wolves? Afterall, when the wolves are done with your neighbors, the chances are that one day they will be coming for you and your family.

 

Osama did proclaim that all infidels needed to be killed, and I am assuming that you would fall into his classification of an infidel...so what alternatives do "you" have to that kind of agenda?

 

I'd love to see a peaceful world. A world where differences are respected, and not handled with swords. However, reality dictates otherwise.

 

The Mayans and the Spanish are a prime example. Yes, the Spanish were barbaric in eradicating the Mayan Civilization. However, it seems that people have forgotten that the Mayan government was not exactly a peace loving bunch either. How many people were sacrificed in the names of the Mayan gods?

 

So what to do?

 

As much as I'd love to live my life and maybe sit by a waterfall and create music all day, minding my own business, when the wolves come a'knocking on my door, they will recieve whatever is necessary to protect my family.

 

Important to note: I don't hate the wolves, but certainly don't like what they do. Same with Osama Bin Laden. I never hated the man, but, hated what he did. Too bad he made the choices he did, and what happened, he brought on himself. And yeah, now that he's gone, we all should pray for the man, and his family, and move on.

 

Agreed, although the wolves sometimes need to be shot and killed, it isn't something to find joy and happyness with having to do, but unfortunately, sometimes needs the doing.

 

Still...would love to read your solutions on how to resolve the "violent" problems of the world.

 

 

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I understand that a would-be killer may be killed in self-defense, and that is certainly less evil that what has happened. You cannot call it self-defense 10 years later. Now it's just about revenge, which isn't even a solution to anything. If the cycle of karma is ever to stop, someone has to stand up and forgive all that comes their way.

 

 

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If the cycle of karma is ever to stop, someone has to stand up and forgive all that comes their way.

According to whom? The statement is religious in nature (or at very least metaphysical) based on faith and not any sort of fact. What the heck is "karma" and where can one get a spoonful?

What you propose was actually done - for almost forty years. From the mid-1950's to the late 1980's we, the Western World, allowed the Middle Eastern terrorist and assassination squads you wander virtually at will among us, do their nasty deeds and slink back into the Middle East to hide in plain sight in countries that (1) declared that they had nothing to do with it and (2) declared the terrorists were not citizens of their country while (3) giving them aid and comfort with little or no threat of deportation or rendition. Of course the reality was that they, the host countries, were behind these actions - Syria, Libya, Iran, Iraq and to some degree Saudi Arabia. They just needed "plausible deniability". They are a one product economy and know damned good and well that if the US actually decided to harvest and produce its own petroleum they's be screwed. So they would kill us (Westerners) but would do it by proxy while thereafter offering their sincere heartfelt sorrow for our losses.

 

We took it. We took it on the schnoz and we took it up the tuckus. We rarely retalliated for fear of pissing someone off.

 

Your "karma" approach has been tried. It's a nice hippie pipe-dream but it don't do much in the real world. As a strategy it is kind of a sucky failure.

 

Taking out OBL by the Seals is fraught with danger for them. This Administration can and probably will s*it backwards, through proxies of course (see above re proxies and plausible deniability), when the heat gets cranked up and Barry starts taking some flack about being a murderer (can't have that). At that point he will let the backwards crapping commence and guess who will get crapped on? Sure, a few Sailors and Marines who did an outstanding job at the behest and orders of Barry. He'll sell them out at the drop of a hat.

 

And just so I'm clear (again) on taking out OBL:

 

Fu*k OBL. Did he try to surrender? Irrelevent and who really gives a crap. He was not entitled to having his Miranda Rights read to him and he was not entitled to any rights under the Geneva Convention. He wasn't being arrested and charged with a crime and he was not a soldier in combat. He was one of those stateless persons referenced above hiding out in plain sight. He always said that he would never be taken alive. Wish granted; a pleasure to have served you. Have a nice day sleeping with the fishes.

 

 

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