Jump to content

Why do we blame God?


PaulaJedi
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 19
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Why do people blame God for disasters but never blame Satan? ?

 

Satan does nothing unless approved by God. This is revealed with Job.

 

 

And then we have this :

 

Isaiah 45:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

 

And this:

 

Exodus 32:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

 

And this :

 

Genesis 18 King James Version (KJV)

 

 

17 And the Lord said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;

 

20 And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;

 

22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord.

 

23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Now, as far as what people do; That is spelled out in Genesis with the allegory of Adam and Eve.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why do people blame God for disasters but never blame Satan? ?

Good question. I do think God allows some evil to happen, but not all. It seems unlikely that a loving God would allow that much evil to occur on Earth, let alone the universe. Sometimes there's no rhyme or reason to events that occur. We really should start blaming Satan. Why would God approve anything from Satan? He damned him to hell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good question. I do think God allows some evil to happen, but not all. It seems unlikely that a loving God would allow that much evil to occur on Earth, let alone the universe. Sometimes there's no rhyme or reason to events that occur. We really should start blaming Satan. Why would God approve anything from Satan? He damned him to hell.

 

Let's say you have an ant farm. Do you really have the capability or the want to control each individual ant? Would you want a world of puppets or would you allow free will? If God wanted a puppet show, he'd create a puppet show. Besides, can you imagine the chaos of emitting too many miracles at once? We already have non-believers. The world would turn upside down.

 

If Satan isn't a threat, why are we so concerned about him, then? If he's stuck in hell, can he really send evil spirits after us? I think the Bible says yes, but I have not seen any concrete evidence and frankly, I don't think I want to.

 

God can "fix" evil through prayer requests, but I do not know why some prayers are answered and some are not. I don't know why one child is saved and the other dies. These are the same questions we all have. But again, if everyone were saved, there would be no death, and eternal life is somewhat of a reward, not a guarantee.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's say you have an ant farm. Do you really have the capability or the want to control each individual ant? Would you want a world of puppets or would you allow free will? If God wanted a puppet show, he'd create a puppet show. Besides, can you imagine the chaos of emitting too many miracles at once? We already have non-believers. The world would turn upside down.

 

If Satan isn't a threat, why are we so concerned about him, then? If he's stuck in hell, can he really send evil spirits after us? I think the Bible says yes, but I have not seen any concrete evidence and frankly, I don't think I want to.

 

God can "fix" evil through prayer requests, but I do not know why some prayers are answered and some are not. I don't know why one child is saved and the other dies. These are the same questions we all have. But again, if everyone were saved, there would be no death, and eternal life is somewhat of a reward, not a guarantee.

So I guess the bottom line of what you're saying is that God does not micromanage everything, but that he gave individuals free will. If that's what it is, then I agree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's say you have an ant farm. Do you really have the capability or the want to control each individual ant? Would you want a world of puppets or would you allow free will? If God wanted a puppet show, he'd create a puppet show. Besides, can you imagine the chaos of emitting too many miracles at once? We already have non-believers. The world would turn upside down.

 

If Satan isn't a threat, why are we so concerned about him, then? If he's stuck in hell, can he really send evil spirits after us? I think the Bible says yes, but I have not seen any concrete evidence and frankly, I don't think I want to.

 

God can "fix" evil through prayer requests, but I do not know why some prayers are answered and some are not. I don't know why one child is saved and the other dies. These are the same questions we all have. But again, if everyone were saved, there would be no death, and eternal life is somewhat of a reward, not a guarantee.

 

Satan was not sent to hell. He was thrown out of heaven and cast down to Earth.

 

Revelation 12:7-9 ( AMPC )

 

7 Then war broke out in heaven; Michael and his angels went forth to battle with the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought.

8 But they were defeated, and there was no room found for them in heaven any longer.

9 And the huge dragon was cast down and out—that age-old serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, he who is the seducer (deceiver) of all humanity the world over; he was forced out and down to the earth, and his angels were flung out along with him.

 

There are numerous additional verses that state the same

 

There is a word used in Scripture that may be understood to mean "hell" (Sheol ), but it also may not mean that at all. We are still debating the definition of Shoel as used in Scripture.

 

As far as free will goes,

(note: see quote from L. Ray Smith below that FREE will is a myth)

 

Anyone that commits an act of evil has no one to blame but themselves, for they alone make the choice to do so.

 

As written about in Genesis with the allegory of Adam and Eve. There is a reason why the story of Adam and Eve is in the front of the Bible.

 

The devil made me do it .... is merely a lame excuse for people who don't accept responsibility for their own actions.

 

Genesis 2:7 tells us who we really are in truth.

 

Genesis 2:7 (AMPC )

 

7 Then the Lord God formed man from the [a]dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath or spirit of life, and man became a living being.

 

Our physical body (temple of the Lord) is not who we are , so when a volcano blasts away and consumes people, only their physical shell is consumed (dust of the ground). However, who they really are, that which was given to them by God (the breath or spirit of life), can not be destroyed and is safe (living being).

 

This also is mentioned within Scripture.

 

Psalm 18:1-3 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

 

1 I love You fervently and devotedly, O Lord, my Strength.

 

2 The Lord is my Rock, my Fortress, and my Deliverer; my God, my keen and firm Strength in Whom I will trust and take refuge, my Shield, and the Horn of my salvation, my High Tower.

 

3 I will call upon the Lord, Who is to be praised; so shall I be saved from my enemies.

 

1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 AMPC

 

6 Be happy [in your faith] and rejoice and be glad-hearted continually (always);

 

17 Be unceasing in prayer [praying perseveringly];

 

18 Thank [God] in everything [no matter what the circumstances may be, be thankful and give thanks], for this is the will of God for you [who are] in Christ Jesus [the Revealer and Mediator of that will].

 

Satan asking for permission from God ; read Job.

 

God is the boss. Nothing happens unless he allows it to happen.

 

God meant for the Earth to be exactly as it is ;

 

Link to KJV ---- > Romans 8

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

L. Ray Smith has claimed that there is no such thing as "free" will.

 

To quote L. Ray Smith....

 

"That man has a will, there is no debate. It is the teaching that man himself determines his own will, FREELY, without anything causing his will or his choices to be what they are. The idea of free will or free moral agency is that man can by himself unaided by anything else, originate his own choices of his will.

 

But does man actually possess such a power? And if he does, where is the proof? Now for all who have no confidence in the Scriptures, let me say that there is absolutely no scientific proof that man has a "free will" or the ability to make "uncaused choices."

 

If such a freedom of the will existed, it should be possible to demonstrate it. But there is no such scientific demonstration that man can formulate thoughts and actions to which absolutely no cause whatsoever can be attributed. "

 

Sources:

The Myth of Free-Will Exposed by L. Ray Smith

Amplified Bible Classic Edition (AMPC)

Hebrew Interlinear Bible (OT)

Greek Interlinear Bible (NT)

Sheol ; Jewish Encyclopedia

Sheol: What Happens When We Die? ( Pastor Melissa Scott, Ph.D.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thought of free will never made much sense to me. Of course, within our individual boundaries we are free to choose, but it's very clear that each person is different and our "free wills" are very personal. These boundaries aren't frozen solid. But, I haven't seen them change drastically. There's some room to adaptation, but nothing too significant.

 

For instance, I don't have the free will to feel attracted to men. I was born heterosexual.

I don't have the free will to get addicted to alcohol, tobacco or marijuana. I tried these drugs and they have zero appeal to me.

I can't choose to talk a lot. I have friends and family who are big talkers and I just can't do it, nor stand it.

Etc...

 

Doing any of these things would mean I'm being forced and am doing them against my will.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thought of free will never made much sense to me. Of course, within our individual boundaries we are free to choose, but it's very clear that each person is different and our "free wills" are very personal. These boundaries aren't frozen solid. But, I haven't seen them change drastically. There's some room to adaptation, but nothing too significant.

 

For instance, I don't have the free will to feel attracted to men. I was born heterosexual.

I don't have the free will to get addicted to alcohol, tobacco or marijuana. I tried these drugs and they have zero appeal to me.

I can't choose to talk a lot. I have friends and family who are big talkers and I just can't do it, nor stand it.

Etc...

 

Doing any of these things would mean I'm being forced and am doing them against my will.

 

It is an interesting dynamic, free-will. Opens pandora's box when examined. I understand what L. Ray Smith is saying with regards to individuals and have to really give his explanation some deep thought.

 

L. Ray Smith is saying that the reason why you make the choices you do are because of what you were taught during your life. The teaching coming from a variety of sources. It is that teaching that 'causes' you do decide to do something or not do something. You didn't really have FREE will in your choice. Your choice was "caused" by something, you didn't just arrive at a decision "unaided " .

 

Your choices are based on a chain of events throughout your lifetime.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Satan was not sent to hell. He was thrown out of heaven and cast down to Earth.

 

Ok, but if he is living on earth, you said he cannot do harm without God's permission, right? So, bad things that happen are random (which is what I believe, anyway), not acts of Satan. Why are we even concerned about him, other than the fact that it seems he can live through people? (I don't need to name names).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, but if he is living on earth, you said he cannot do harm without God's permission, right? So, bad things that happen are random (which is what I believe, anyway), not acts of Satan. Why are we even concerned about him, other than the fact that it seems he can live through people? (I don't need to name names).

 

He is living on Earth, yes. For now.

Classicalfan is correct, Satan is damned, to be thrown into the Lake of Fire after the end of days.

No, he can't do anything without Gods permission.

Does he cause natural disasters? I don't think that's his thing, as per scripture, he wasn't tasked with that specifically.

Does he make people commit evil? No he doesn't do that either.

Does he take advantage of our weaknesses?, Yes, he does do that, meaning we were prone to doing whatever it is anyway.

 

Jesus was tempted by Satan, and rebuked him. We, also can rebuke Satan.

Yes, he can live within a host, as can his angels.

 

Mary Magdalene ---

 

Mark 16:9 King James Version (KJV)

9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

 

 

Unless, there is a greater goal to be achieved, such as with Judas.

 

There is a debate as to whether or not Judas betrayed Jesus freely ; there are varying viewpoints.

 

1> Judas is seen as a divinely appointed agent who is predestined to play his role as betrayer and who has no freedom to resist that destiny.

John 13:2 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

2 So [it was] during supper, Satan having already put the thought of betraying Jesus in the heart of Judas Iscariot

 

2 > Judas is understood as a pawn of Satan. Satan selects him, enters him and uses him to carry out his purpose, with Judas unable to resist.

 

The 3rd viewpoint not in agreement with what L. Ray Smith explained in regards to free-will or free-moral agent:

 

3 > Judas is a free moral agent who, though at first in harmony with the ministry of Jesus, betrays Jesus for religious and ideological reasons

 

Jesus knew he would be betrayed and by whom.

What is interesting, is the word used doesn't necessarily translate into "betray". That can be a used , however, there are alternatives.

And Satan isn't specifically named either. The word used in reference to what happened to Judas literally is, " THRU-CASTer".

 

What is implied by that, " THRU-CASTer"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thus rendering free will a myth

 

Yes.

 

I think awareness plays a role.

If you are aware of a deficiency in your life, you can teach yourself to overcome that deficiency.

And thereby avoid events that may be the result of that deficiency.

 

An example would be, lacking patience. If you become aware that you lack patience, and pray to God for help.

God doesn't give you patience.

God will provide you with awareness during circumstances for you to learn how to overcome the adversities that require patience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always find it amusing when people tell me they believe in a god that can interfere in our world.

 

So many questions arise, but the first that comes to mind is: how does your God decide which cases he will act upon and which he won't?

 

Anyway, I don't mean to derail the original discussion ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always find it amusing when people tell me they believe in a god that can interfere in our world.

 

So many questions arise, but the first that comes to mind is: how does your God decide which cases he will act upon and which he won't?

 

Anyway, I don't mean to derail the original discussion ?

 

As far as the existence of God, there is an old thread already going about that, it is entitled , God?

 

------> God? <-------

 

This thread here already assumes God exists and is a discussion of responsibility ; whether God or Satan should be blamed for the evil that occurs in this world.

 

Not IF they exist or not. That is a discussion with no end. As you will see if you read through the God? Thread.

 

Hmm, didn't know we could type if different colors. Now that I know...Baw ha ha ha... ?

Test, test...can you read this ???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He is living on Earth, yes. For now.

 

Why would God subject us to him? Why not ban him to an empty planet like Mars?

 

Does he make people commit evil? No he doesn't do that either.

Does he take advantage of our weaknesses?, Yes, he does do that, meaning we were prone to doing whatever it is anyway.

 

What about people being possessed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The way I see it with the big G is that this universe is imperfect on purpose. I think Siddhartha Gautama said it best that "Life is suffering."

Each day I'm thankful for what we've got, because there sure are a lot of other spacetimes that aren't this nice.

 

As for Satan? I don't subscribe much to the notion. Satan is a device to teach us moral and virtuous lessons.

All of it still aspects of the One. You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both, and there you have "the facts of life"

-Oz

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why would God subject us to him? Why not ban him to an empty planet like Mars?

 

 

 

What about people being possessed?

 

To the why would God subject us to Satan...quote from L. Ray Smith.

 

"Knowing "good and evil" is one of the most essential requisites in being formed in the image of God. To truly "know" both good and evil they HAD to partake of its source, which was the "TREE of the knowledge of good and evil," which then DEMANDED that they SIN in order to obtain this "knowledge." NO OTHER TREE IN THE GARDEN POSSESSED THIS NEEDED KNOWLEDGE!

 

And so it was GOD, and none other than GOD, Who intended from the beginning that Satan and man SIN! That does not make God a sinner, for a sin is a "mistake," a "missing of the mark," a "falling short of the glory of God," and God has NEVER MADE A MISTAKE OR FALLEN SHORT OF TOTAL PERFECTION! God knew what He was doing and how things would turn out BEFORE He created ANYTHING! "Declaring the end from the beginning..." (Isa. 46:10). Satan and man are "accountable" for their sins, because they sinned willingly from their heart, but God takes "responsibility" for their sins, and therefore had already provided them a Saviour BEFORE the foundation of the world:

 

"But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was manifested in these last times for you" (I Pet. 1:19-20). "

 

 

Reading L. Ray Smith's explanations would be of benefit:

 

Lake of Fire : The Real Origin of Sin

 

 

If you were possessed by a devil, and something was done, was it you or the devil that did it?

 

Did you read the part about Judas in the post above? That Satan put the thought of giving up Jesus to the Roman army in Judas' heart? So was Judas really to blame? And Jesus already knew that Judas was going to give him up when they sat down for the last supper. Jesus spoke about it in a manner that it was preordained. Fulfilment of destiny.

 

Remember Genesis 2:7

 

Genesis 2:7 (AMPC )

 

7 Then the Lord God formed man from the [a]dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath or spirit of life, and man became a living being.

 

The form was not a living being , it did not have the spirit of life. Only when God gave part of Himself, his breath (spirit of life), into the form, was the living being created --- the body is dust, a vessel, and will return to dust. Who you really are. the living being, you are not the vessel, but exist within it. No matter what happens to the vessel, the real you, the spirit of life, remains safe and sound.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the analogy I heard Desmond Tutu say way back in 1988...

 

God does not say, If you touch the Oven I will burn you. He says, If you touch the Oven you will get burnt!

Many (most? all?) of the bad things in the world are the short term or long term result of our choices and our actions.

Once sin has entered the world it is virus like frankly.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...