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Time travel in past doesn't sound relastic


HimaliYeti
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Time travel in future sounds logical to me. It is possible because for an astronut, when he comes back to earth from a space journey, he might spend 300 days only but his wife who stayed on the Earth might spend 305 days.

Thsi is possible because of time dialtion. Similarly if somebody travel near speed of light, he can jump 5 years instead of 5 days. We can take that event as time travel. 

But when it comes to TimeTraveling in Past, it doesn't sound realistic. Is there anybody who can make explain "timetravel in past" as limply as I explained "tiem travelin future."
HY

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  • 1 month later...
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You view illustrates the idea that most people hold that time is linear. it's hard for most of us to imagine that it is not when that is the very basis of our world. But if time is linear it doesn't explain a lot of ideas, like relativity for one and infinity for another. For time to be linear, it must have a beginning and end, but infinity by it's very definition doea not. Try exploring other avenues of thought rather than relying on what humainty tells you.

Raith

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All my life,I have been flying very high and exploring all the possibilities. Reading different articles, Doing Research. It is not that I don't think the time is not linear. 

Theory of relativity makes the curve on time itself and most of the physics rules fail under very high gravity or near light speed. Only thing I did not see is time going backward. Or let's say time going in a loop.

Let's suppose I made a device which goes in light speed, theoritically time stops for me relative to the people who are on Earth. My body mass will increase and theoritically it will become infinite. Now if we increase our speed, our body mass will remain infinity and time will stay still(compared to The Earth Time.) 

I am making this statement because light can travel faster than light under certain conditions, which means all the hypothesis made by assuming that light speed is constant fails under this condition.

Another thing is I red a lot of aritcles in this forum but most of them sounds like dream, very few of them are relastic. If we want to reach somewhere we have to learn to walk on the ground, then only we can reach somewhere. I am a open minded person, so lets investigate.......

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I agree with you Lara, but let's start with what we know then we can jump into the field which we don't know.

I agree that time is not linear and it started sometime in infinite. The way I see Time travel right now is possible only by travelling in very high speed. But no matter how fast you travel when we come back to the Earth or simply reduce the speed to normal speed, the TIME becomes linear from that point. 

This proves that the time is inversly proportional to the speed for that object. But we measure speed WRT time so if we draw a graph for time and speed we will have a curve. Not a straight line. That simply proves time is not linear. 

Has any one got this solved????
If anybody is confused about curvature of time I am still here.

Now we already know that time is curve, can space be curved just like time????

If the answer is yes, we will not be able to travel very fast in a straight line because of the curvature of space.
HM

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I kind of disagree with your opinion. When I explained space-time curvature I actually ignored gravity. 

Curvature in Space is possible without the involvement of gravitational force, and if you had read last topic very carefully, I think I had made myself clear.

Lots of people like to read about fancy stuffs about Science, but I am trying to investgate the facts. Right now I am talking about time and space, no gravity is nivolved.
HY

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You disagree with my opinin that travel through space has to take gravity into account? 

If you talk about curved space-time, you have to talk about gravity. It's not that I'm not listening to you, but it's just accepted fact that curved space is the basis of it.

Really, gravity is at the core of time dilation, and can't be ignored. 

[This message has been edited by Lara (edited 27 April 2001).]

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Let's say what you are saying is right. If I travel close to the speed of light. My time will be slowe than yours if you are on the Earth. There is time dilation, without involvng the gravity at all.

Time travel through black hole is a different theory and this is different. yes, theoritically space-time can be bent under very high gravitational field.

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As a body approaches the speed of light, its mass increases to infinity. This increases the curve on the space around it and represents itself as gravity. At infinite mass, the universe would collapse. Therefore, even time dilation through high speed travel involves gravitational forces.

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Right but time dilation is possible only when we travel in 0.1% of light speed and at that speed our mass doesn't increase that high to create big gravitational force but time dilation is still possible, isn't it. 

I have thought about that too. See the thing is we need some kind of curve or some new ways to achieve that kind of speed. Now the question is; is it easy to gain tremendous speed or to create very high gravitational force?????

My suggestion is if we can use the curvature of space to increase our speed and the increased speed will create bigger gravity, Hence we will have bigger curvature in the space. That curvature will let us travel faster in the space; Physically we covered a huge distance using the curvature.

If we can Practically apply this chain, we can break the boundry of linear travelling(I mean in a straight line).

Main advantage of this chain will be we will be able to control the tremensous speed and the tremendous gravitational force. But as you mentioned before, (practically)we will not be able to gain very high speed because we will collapse into our own gravitational force.
HY

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I'm not saying time dilation isn't possible. It's already been proven. But its possible at any speed, not just 0.1%c. Ofcourse, it's not practical at anything less than a significant percentage. 

Using curved space to atain near light speed is impractical, because you would need a pretty big curve, and that equals out to a gravity well strong enough to destroy any craft within its influence. 

I'm of the opinion that using high gravitational forces or relativistic speeds is not practical at this point in time because of the energy required, and another method needs to be found.

The original post, I think, was if there was a way to simply explain time travel to the past. If you can travel to the future, you can travel to the past, but it means doing away with the illusion of tomorrow and yesterday.

The old proposal of a time machine using wormholes is a good example. Leave one end of the hole on earth, and put the other end on a spacecraft traveling at near light speed. Eventually, the moving end of the wormhole could be pretty far in the future. 

One from that time could than jump through and arrive in the past.

[This message has been edited by Lara (edited 28 April 2001).]

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Don't worry about the nuts and bolts. We're a long way from that point yet. Let's assume that it "is" possible, or rather, "will be" possible. Does it make any sense to attempt time travel into the past? In other words, do the possible benefits outweigh the risks? I'm not sure, and here's why. First, and most important, any trip into a time period before the device/mechanism exists that permits time travel is a one-way trip. It's pretty unrealistic to believe that a mechanism capable of generating a temporal rift in the space-time continuum could fit in your pocket. Once you arrived, you'd have to wait for such a mechanism to be built to travel through time again. Plus, your very existence in that earlier time line could alter events in unconceivable ways. I'm not going into paradoxes because I'm now convinced they can all be "adjusted to" by the altered time-line. The only benefit of traveling back in time would be to transfer the knowledge of successful temporal mechanics to previous generations and "hope" it will not be abused.
No, the only way to go is into the future. By starting from the point of successful time travel and moving forward, you are relatively assured of a possible trip back since the mechanism which made it possible will still exist, hopefully refined to work even better. The risk factor of going into the future is also no greater than the risk you currently pose in this time line. Even the paradox thing is pretty much neutralized. You have to ask yourself the question, "If time travel may some day be possible, why haven't we been visited?" Some would say, "Maybe we have." I believe we won't, since the risks outweigh the benefits. Long story short, answer the big questions first...then we can worry about what color to make the seat.

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Any risk involved with time travel to the past is the same as travel to the future. After all, any event is really just another events past. By travelling 10 years into the future, we could unknowingly prevent the universal vaccine from being invented 5 years after.

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HimaliYeti and Lara have bring the real red meat in this forum.

This is why I come here half of the time (on this forum of TT; to see some discussion, get some action. 99% of the time, people dosen't want to get wet (in a fight). I don't say that to promote violence but because I'm simply think that we only get further (in knowledge), when we compare our idea with conviction ...

Anybody does not agree? 

Read meet.

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Time travel in past has a lot of paradox and logically (if we think totally rationally) there is no answers, those are just hypothesis which are more likely to be true for those people who like ot fantasize.

Now let's assume that time travel is possible in future, so there is no point if that person can't travel back to the present time. So???.....

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Alot of people have made good points about the dangers of time travel. I think the good thing is this:

Someone made a good point. A time machine probably won't fit in a pocket. It'll probably be the size of a building and cost billions of dollars per trip or something of the like.

This would probably prompt the creation of a whole team of scientists who would calculate every little thing a person did in the other time. This would cut down on dangers. Kind of like the NASA of time travel.

This is assuming there would be any danger, since one belief concerning TT is that its really just a side jump to a parallel universe.

Either way, the downside is a low budget and penny pinching higher ups would help ensure that TT isn't put to saving the environment or the like, but probably taking over the world or something.

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<<>>

Yeti,

You have to account for gravity in curved space. But don't feel like the Lone Ranger. That was where Einstein was at after publishing Special Relativity. SR didn't account for the curving in timespace by gravity...this lead to General Relativity which is his explanation of gravity. He realized that, among other things, that for gravity to be as it appears it cannot be a "force" in the same sense as electromagnatism...a force at a distance. It would have to travel in excess of LS to account for it's effect. His view of mass is that it is something that curves timespace. The more dense the mass the greater the curvature. Curve timespace suffciently and a closed null geodesic (time loop) is formed...leading to the past.

The problem with understanding how it works isn't the science of General Relativity itself. It's how we are taught about physics at an early age. We first learn classical Newtonian physics and later on we are told...errr, Newton's view was wrong...workable in everyday life, but wrong in any case.

In any case, gravity is at the heart of the matter of time travel.

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TWF's & CTC's
(Time Warp Fields & Closed "Time-Like" Crves.)

Time Warped Fields & Closed Time-Like Curves go hand in hand my friend... 

. Tipler first described a working "time machine" through his theory of massive rotating spheres. 
http://www.geocities.com:0080/Area5.../5763/time.html

Certain types of black holes also exhibit the "time travel" abilities of Tipler cylinders. Kerr was one of the first to describe the dual event horizons of a rotating black hole. As with Tipler's cylinders, it was possible to travel on a "time-like" trip through a Kerr black hole and end up in a different world line without being squished by the gravity of the singularity.
http://www.physics.fsu.edu/courses/
fall98/ast1002/section4/blackholes/fig11- 
13/fig11-132.htm
http://qso.lanl.gov/~bromley/nu_nofun.html http://www.leonllo.freeservers.com/blackworm.html 
http://www.astro.ku.dk/~cramer/RelViz/text/geom_
web/node4.html 

The mass and gravitational field of a microsingularity can then be manipulated by "injecting" electrons onto its surface. By rotating two electric microsigularities at high speed, it is possible to create and modify a local gravity sinusoid that replicates the affects of a Kerr black hole.


Here's what Dr. Anderson explaned in his last interview in Frankfurt, Germany 03 Aug. 1999...

Dr. Anderson:> "I did many things... many things that I still cannot discuss today. But I can say that the focus of my work was in the research, development, test and evaluation of space-time models and systems. It was here at the Air Force Flight Test Center that I began building a detailed understanding and passion for space-time physics. I moved from project to project developing new mathematical methods and models to help advance space-time study, test and evaluation. I remember that just as I was finishing my graduate program with California State University that I became almost completely obsessed in trying to solve a very specific and elusive problem. The problem was to explain an unpredicted and inexplainable variance in position that some of our space-based satellite systems experienced over longer periods of time. I was finally successful in solving the problem by creating a predictable and reliable mathematical model. However, even though my model worked, it took several more years for me to refine and really understand it. When I finally did I couldn't believe what I was looking at."

"It turned out to be an absolutely complete space-time model. It included every aspect of relativistic physics even including consideration for details like frame-dragging that is caused by the gravity and spin of the Earth and the Moon. This resolved the discrepancy in the satellite position almost perfectly. What was most exciting wasn't the existence of the mathematical model itself, but the relationships that fell out of it. At this point in time I began to develop what I labelled "Time-warped Field Theory" to describe these relationships and how they could be applied for practical time control applications. I left the United States Air Force to continue my work and spent almost all of my time since then working to fund my research, advance my theories, build our TRI-STAR virtual laboratory, and plan the launch of the Time Travel Research Center."

To read the remainder of this interview, goto...> http://www.time-travel.com/timetech.htm

Dr. David Anderson can be contacted by e-mail at [email protected] or by regular mail by writing to the Time Travel Research Center, P.O. Box 1047, Smithtown, NY 11787-8547, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
Send mail to [email protected] for questions or comments about this website.
Copyright © 2001 Time Travel Research Association

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  • 4 weeks later...

Main thing I did not like about people is their unpractical (can not be true in reality) strong opinions.

I am talking about Parallel universe. It is more impossible to have those parallel universe because there must be one parallel universe for each person to go to past other wise let's assume x and y went to parallel universe and lilled eachother's parents who were still child. now both x and y should not exist in that universe. That means that universe is not exactly similar to this universe so that universe is no longer a parallel universe. If anyone can understand this point, this explanation totally falsify the whole concept of parallel universe.

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